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Author Topic: Money Merge Accounts - scam or for real?  (Read 65585 times)

Offline Rancho Funding

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Re:Money Merge Accounts - scam or for real?
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2006, 06:49:30 pm »
Jamie,

I did just notice something that I must have overlooked last time.

"I disagree completely. There is no such thing as good debt.

Let's agree on something here on this thread, ok?"

I recommend you read the book "Missed Fortune" by Douglas Andrew. To summarize the book Douglas points out that available equity in your home is doing nothing for you. If you can take that equity in the form of a tax deductible mortgage and reinvest it at the exact same rate as your mortgage you can become a millionaire off the interest. Nonsense? Well if your mortgage rate is 6%, the average American is really only paying 4% because of the $1 for $3 tax deductible rule. Therefore if you reinvest as Douglas Andrew recommends into TAX FREE investments such as Universal Life at 6% you will clear 2% on any possible equity you have year after year. If you have $200,000 worth of equity and you make 2% interest on it tax free for 30 years what would that make you. This is just an example. Many clients I have helped have seen Universal life returns averaging around 8-9%.

The catch:
Only acquisition costs of mortgage interest are tax deductible and/or +$100,000 Home Equity loan up to $1,000,0000 financing. Acquisition costs are reduced every time you pay a principle payment. That means if you pay your purchase money mortgage of $200,000 down to $20,000, even if you take a cash out loan of $200,000 years later you can only legally deduct $120,000 worth of the interest.

For more information I again recommend reading "Missed Fortune" or "Missed Fortune 101"  both by Douglas Andrew.

Disclaimer: I am a licensed mortgage professional but all information is generic. Please contact your tax advisor for specific information and advice.

Offline Jaime Buckley

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Re:Money Merge Accounts - scam or for real?
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2006, 07:23:25 pm »
LOL. Rancho, I still don't agree.

Simple reason is--I am still exposing myself to an "investment".
So, what happens if the rates change? What happens to me and my home, now that I have taken all of my saved stability out of the home, and this investment goes belly up?

Can you actually guarantee that i won't lose my money?

Now, if you have, say a rental property...I could see that being a possibility. I still wouldn't do it personally, but I could stomach seeing someone else do it. However, if you're talking about taking MY home to do that?

Absolutely not.

It doesn't matter who the author is, the 'principles' are not sound. Debt...is debt. Plain and simple.
The fact that the equity in my home is GETTING ME OUT OF BONDAGE...it's doing far more for me, that your investments are for you. Now, if you have successfully done your investment, made a ton and gotten out of debt...hoorah. You were lucky.

But let's see how long this all goes on before we start hearing rumors of investments going bad and agents being sued by their clients. Your options are not based on sound principles...they are based on risk, chance, the stability of society and greed. We live in a society of 'gotta have it now' and instant gratification. That's why i know you'll get many clients with your suggestions...just not mine.

I teach people to use what they have, get out of debt, and then the world is theirs. They can actually see what will happen in their future...and won't need a crystal ball.

I suggest you listen to my podcast on that very subject my friend,...because you are not the first, and certainly not the last to bring up that concept, nor that book--and I would never recommend someone staying in debt and exposing themselves, and their home--their haven, to take that risk.

The more equity I have, the more I become the Bank. The more independent I become. I then buy another home, use tax decutions and pay it off, even faster than the first. I can buy a third, fourth, fifth and so on...homes...and all this time, I can extend the limit of my HELOC and become the Bank.

My friend, my equity does plenty for me, and the best part is: I do it on MY PRESENT INCOME, AND I CONTROL IT ALL.

I still completely disagree. Debt is still debt. Risk is still risk. What you suggest is diametrically oppossed to the word of God. Get out of debt, then you have plenty of options, and a safe haven to work from.
That's my council, and I stand behind it.

Thanks for the chat.
Jaime Buckley
Co-Founder
www.TheJubileeProject.org
"Setting the working man free."
801-208-9492

Offline Rancho Funding

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Re:Money Merge Accounts - scam or for real?
« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2006, 07:45:13 pm »
Jamie,

Considering the product you back I am shocked at your blinded view on debt.

We can simplify what I just put in writing and go to the bone basics. You cannot argue these hard facts.

30 year fixed mortgage (No RISK) 6.5%

Fixed Universal Life policy 6.5% return tax exempt (accessible whenever you want)

Using the numbers in the above post you will see how whatever equity you have will make you hundred-thousands-10's of thousands in interest. The programs we have available will just compound the benefit on top of those basics.

Where is the risk? There is no risk. Uncle Sam gives us limited ways to shelter from taxes. The largest is our homes interest. You and your customers will be shocked down the road towards retirement when you realize that your house is paid off and you start to draw on your Social Security, IRA, 401K and other investments and you’re in a higher tax bracket than you have ever been in. Then Uncle Sam comes and takes 30+% away. By keeping your home financed you can virtually draw that already tied up retirement investment most Americans have tax free with the tax shelter of your homes interest.

As you can tell by my passion for educating and for finanacial freedom for my clients I also teach of how to accelerate wealth in addition to debt reduction with no change to spending habits or monthly income.

Your final comment "I still completely disagree. Debt is still debt. Risk is still risk. What you suggest is diametrically opposed to the word of God. Get out of debt, then you have plenty of options, and a safe haven to work from.
That's my council, and I stand behind it." would be true if we lived in a tax free country. Unfortunately the cave-man like thought of just paying everything off is not financially beneficial in our Income tax based society and the shelters our elected officials have created for us. It is not you or I who can say there is good or bad debt. The Internal Revenue Service has already made it clear there is good debt.

Respectfully,

Brooke
« Last Edit: November 09, 2006, 08:16:29 pm by Rancho Funding »

Offline Jaime Buckley

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Re:Money Merge Accounts - scam or for real?
« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2006, 09:55:33 pm »
Then I wish you the best, my friend.

You help your clients, I will help mine.

The principles I stand by apply across the board, Brooke. I pay everything off and rent, flip, or use the equity in future homes, just not my own. Why is that so hard to grasp? No risk, as you say. Steady, secure, financial stability...at no risk.

When taxes are actually the least of someones problems, due to the amazing cash flow from paying off a home early, and now having the ability to purchase income producing properties...what i propose is more sound, stable, and rock solid for the average American. You're just like so many who leave out the ability to buy MORE properties. So I have a higher tax bracket. 30%? ...and your point is what? Can I have enough property, and income producing property to offset 30%? Easily. We aren't talking about need and comfort now, Brooke...we're back to greed. You simply want a ton, you want it now, right?? Uncle Sam takes close to that now....so, your point was what?

I'm still on the "no risk" issue.

Let me ask you this: Why do you and so many people keep trying to convert me to your point, and keep assuming I have to stop purchasing property and increasing my cash flow? I keep saying over and over...simply buy another property (since you have now BECOME THE BANK), and offset all these issues!

Is there something I'm missing, that I only GET tax benefits if it's a home I LIVE in? Is it only on my FIRST home?

Is anyone else noticing here, that I am meeting your points, Brooke, about "our Income tax based society and the shelters our elected officials have created for us"? I have homes, paid for, with 100% equity. I keep buying more, making more...and so I pay higher taxes? Hey---there are things called 'expenses', 'charities' ...oh, and real estate--to use to my advantage. If I have all I need and a huge chunk more, what's 30% to me?? ...and that's STILL only because you assume I don't have another property in the works, which I'm earning money on, and using as a tax benefit.

I'm doing all you pointed out, Brooke. ...but as you said...with NO RISK.

I'm simply not willing to open myself, or my family, or my hard earned money and equity to someone elses investment opportunity that is based on the stability of society.

BTW: by using the MMA system, through federal lending guidelines, my clients (on average) are eligible to pay less interest than compared to a standard 30-year mortgage at 1.75% fixed. I build more equity in my home in the first 60 days than more homeowners do in the first YEAR of their homes. That's not only equity....that's accelerated stabilty, Brooke.

Look Brooke, I can respect what you're passionate about, and I hope I'm not coming off sounding like a jerk...I'm simply not convinced in the least, that your plan or point of view is the right way to go.

Have a good day. and best of luck to you and your clients  :).
Jaime Buckley
Co-Founder
www.TheJubileeProject.org
"Setting the working man free."
801-208-9492

Offline Rancho Funding

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Re:Money Merge Accounts - scam or for real?
« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2006, 12:12:58 am »
I am going to allow this conversation to end here on my side. You lost me at "If I have all I need and a huge chunk more, what's 30% to me?? "

And... that buying investment properties are no risk.

Just to clarify one other thing. I never disagreed with the MMA program. I am also an agent for the MMA program for my clients who are in states that the Home Ownership Accelerator is not availabale. While the MMA is effective if a client can qualify and lives in a state that the HOA is available they will see a much greater benefit across the board.

Best of luck to you and your clients.

Brooke

Offline Jaime Buckley

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Re:Money Merge Accounts - scam or for real?
« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2006, 07:01:05 am »
I just think we come from two different belief and goal points of view, that's all, Brooke. And I certainly apologize to you if I gave the impression I was attacking you. I certainly don't want you walking away, thinking this was a fight...because I never felt that way.

You are correct about qualification with the MMA as well. I have an agent in Texas, and he has to do all his sales OUTside his state, due to their unique laws, compared to the rest of the country. Also, if people simply don't have the credit score (600+) to qualify, that ousts them as well. So, I understand.

I simply have a different way of looking at people's needs, that's all. No one system, nor opportunity will work for all. That I can agree upon. Some will go with the MMA, some with your suggestions, and some with others we have not discussed.

You have a distinct advantage over me, however Brooke: you offer both sides of the coin.

Best to you and your clients, Brooke---and I hope we parted as friends.

Have a great day.
-Jaime Buckley
« Last Edit: November 10, 2006, 08:11:46 am by kdhastedt »
Jaime Buckley
Co-Founder
www.TheJubileeProject.org
"Setting the working man free."
801-208-9492

Offline christopher w

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Re:Money Merge Accounts - scam or for real?
« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2006, 01:43:26 pm »
Jaime,

Please follow the following link to a white paper on research that was done by the Fedreal Reserve bank of Chicago.

http://www.chicagofed.org/publications/workingpapers/wp2006_05.pdf

As you will read in the white paper it is explained that pre-paying your mortgage in advance as opposed to putting the money in a tax-advantaged savings account is not a good idea. It is 58 pages long, but anyone reading it can get the gist from just reading abstract. Hope this helps.

Christopher W
C-214.923.5781

Offline Jaime Buckley

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Re:Money Merge Accounts - scam or for real?
« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2006, 02:03:55 pm »
Christopher,

Just a simple principle here concerning Banks.

Banks make money off of your bondage. They make money when you owe, they don't when you don't.

WHY would any correct thinking person take the advice of a Bank, when it comes to getting out of debt?

Of COURSE they want you to invest and not pay off the home! I just took $109,000 AWAY from MY Bank!

...come on, really. Keep your report.
Jaime Buckley
Co-Founder
www.TheJubileeProject.org
"Setting the working man free."
801-208-9492

Offline christopher w

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Re:Money Merge Accounts - scam or for real?
« Reply #23 on: November 10, 2006, 02:13:00 pm »
Jaime,

You seem like a bright enough guy, but with the MOUNTAIN of evidence contrary to your way of thinking one would assume that you would at least grasp the concept that tax write-offs are good and compunded interest is better. I understand that you have a product to market and that it would be probably against your better financial interests to admit that you are incorrect. Good luck with your MMA.  
Christopher W
C-214.923.5781

Offline Jaime Buckley

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Re:Money Merge Accounts - scam or for real?
« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2006, 02:23:35 pm »
I have a home to write off taxes.

The Bank is earning "compound interest" on ME---and this program is helping me save my money, and protect me from that.

There is nothing wrong with anything I have stated, nor in what I have shown. I'm not incorrect Christopher...I just see things black and white in this issue. What I propose has always worked, and still works.

None of you have yet to show me my way of thinking doesn't work. Instead, you keep pushing my way of thinking is 'old hat'. Hey, I'm perfectly fine with that. I've just asked to be shown where I am wrong.

You just want to prove your way is BETTER. Make that clear Christopher. My way isn't wrong...it's just not your way.

Isn't that right?
Jaime Buckley
Co-Founder
www.TheJubileeProject.org
"Setting the working man free."
801-208-9492

Offline christopher w

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Re:Money Merge Accounts - scam or for real?
« Reply #25 on: November 10, 2006, 03:34:43 pm »
Yes, that is exactly right. Although I would not call it "my" way. I would call it the "smart" way. Your way involves having someone pay off their home early which in turn causes them to lose their largest tax write-off while also having then tie up thousands of dollars in their home that they DO NOT have access to.  If they want access to it they have to apply for a mortgage and hope they can qualify. If you add all of this to the fact that ALL of the money tied up in the home earns ZERO rate of return they would be better off burying it in their backyard because at least then they could get to it if they needed to.
Christopher W
C-214.923.5781

Offline Jaime Buckley

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Re:Money Merge Accounts - scam or for real?
« Reply #26 on: November 10, 2006, 05:48:10 pm »
Good grief.

Quote
Your way involves having someone pay off their home early which in turn causes them to lose their largest tax write-off while also having then tie up thousands of dollars in their home that they DO NOT have access to.

Did you even READ my posts, Christopher?

Quote
Let me ask you this: Why do you and so many people keep trying to convert me to your point, and keep assuming I have to stop purchasing property and increasing my cash flow? I keep saying over and over...simply buy another property (since you have now BECOME THE BANK), and offset all these issues!

Is there something I'm missing, that I only GET tax benefits if it's a home I LIVE in? Is it only on my FIRST home?

Is anyone else noticing here, that I am meeting your points, Brooke, about "our Income tax based society and the shelters our elected officials have created for us"? I have homes, paid for, with 100% equity. I keep buying more, making more...and so I pay higher taxes? Hey---there are things called 'expenses', 'charities' ...oh, and real estate--to use to my advantage. If I have all I need and a huge chunk more, what's 30% to me?? ...and that's STILL only because you assume I don't have another property in the works, which I'm earning money on, and using as a tax benefit.

I'm doing all you pointed out, Brooke. ...but as you said...with NO RISK.

Quote
I can then go and use that same method and that same HELOC (or set one up on a second property), have my home free and clear and BECOME THE BANK!
Quote
You don't get it Christopher...why won't I have access to my money from my home? I pay it off, and raise the limit of my HELOC, and now I'm the Bank and move onto my second property.
I have 100% access to what money I need, and once I have paid off the second, have an even greater amount to work with in much shorter time frames than what your describing.

But I'm out of debt.
Quote
The more equity I have, the more I become the Bank. The more independent I become. I then buy another home, use tax decutions and pay it off, even faster than the first. I can buy a third, fourth, fifth and so on...homes...and all this time, I can extend the limit of my HELOC and become the Bank.


Then you remark:

Quote
If they want access to it they have to apply for a mortgage and hope they can qualify.
Since WHEN? With the MMA, you have a Home Equity Line of Credit. I don't have to close that line when the house is paid off. In fact I will always keep that open, and EXPAND it, as stated above...TO BECOME THE BANK.

Do you understand that concept? Do you realize that I can have a huge line of credit, which is tied to my equity...so I have access to as much money as I need? Are you reading this now, bud?? I always have access to my money. Each time I purchase more property, I can pay it off in record time, and I have complete access to it's equity as I go.

Quote
If you add all of this to the fact that ALL of the money tied up in the home earns ZERO rate of return they would be better off burying it in their backyard because at least then they could get to it if they needed to.

LOL. Zero rate of return? When you look at the fact that I will be able to buy more property, to expand my net worth (which has no debt, mind you---for you take your investments, and then MINUS your mortgage, then you get your net worth), invest in other projects, create rental properties, purchase options and the like, that's not accurate at all. My money will be working for me, and accelerate my wealth. You are trying to create a set and limited situation here, when I am plainly saying that when you have money and you have no debt, you have options.

Gosh, why don't you just come out and say you simply want people to do things your way...be "smart", take risk in investments and get rich quick? Take all your equity out of your home, expose yourself, your family and place it in someone elses hands. If you're lucky and things stay stable, you'll make a furtune. If things go bad, hey, it was a good thought, and it's ok...you can spend another 30 years building it up again.
Am I too far off?

Look, you've made up your mind, I've made up mine. I think your "way" is anything BUT 'smart'...and you feel the same about me. Cool. I'm good with that. Give people their options, let them choose how they want to use their money. That's not your choice, nor is it mine.

I just have have two questions for you, which I'm curious about:

Question #1:  Is there ANY risk in people LOSING their money with your 'smart' way?
Question #3: Do your investments stay stable, or do they rise and fall with variables in society?
Question #2: If you CAN lose your money, what happens to the homeowners?

Please answer those for me Christopher.

Have a great weekend everyone...be back Monday for another round of fun, fun, fun.

Jaime Buckley
« Last Edit: November 11, 2006, 10:02:15 am by kdhastedt »
Jaime Buckley
Co-Founder
www.TheJubileeProject.org
"Setting the working man free."
801-208-9492

Offline kdhastedt

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Re:Money Merge Accounts - scam or for real?
« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2006, 10:03:11 am »

Jaime,

If you really want to keep coming back, you'r egoing to need to read the rules and start following them...

Keith
Moderator
I have CDO...it's like OCD but in alphabetical order - the way it should be!

Offline Jaime Buckley

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Re:Money Merge Accounts - scam or for real?
« Reply #28 on: November 13, 2006, 09:01:21 am »
My apologies.

I will do so.

-Jaime Buckley
Jaime Buckley
Co-Founder
www.TheJubileeProject.org
"Setting the working man free."
801-208-9492

Offline Jaime Buckley

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Re:Money Merge Accounts - scam or for real?
« Reply #29 on: November 13, 2006, 09:05:41 am »
I'm sorry Kieth, I did as you requested, and noticed I violated many of the rules of posting.

You can handle this any way you wish---if you would like me to go clean up my posting mess, i will do so and be 100% compliant.

Again, my apologies...I did not read the posting rules, and i should have.

...also my apologies to all who responded to my posts, for not following the rules, when they, themselves did.

-Jaime Buckley
Jaime Buckley
Co-Founder
www.TheJubileeProject.org
"Setting the working man free."
801-208-9492

 




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