???? on realitors

[matshingdo001]

this is my problem
Im a investor from ontario Canada,
I wrote a offer witha realitor and the seller agent( rep. for a bank on a power of sale) refused to present the offer.
asking price 189k I offer 122k  the house is 5 broom and 3.5 bathroom  badly dated, but in good area!!! my offer is not out of   line that much.
my question is How do I get this presented or is there a better way!
I am led to belive that there is only 85k owed
any idea's in what I can do to get the realitors to work with me..

I have tryed everything, makeing them a partner,CASH!!!!,anything, and still they ( all the realitors in the area) insist on controling the market

 I am at a road block here, 90% of the market is sold by realitors, any Idea to make the realitors present offers........ any ideas would be great.... thanks

[kdhastedt]

Is this a Canadian property or a U.S. property?

Generally speaking, in the U.S., Realtors must present all offers made in writing.

Keith

[Roger J]

Don't know about the laws in Canada, but in the U.S., Keith is technically correct.  An agent must present all offers.  UNLESS, that is, the seller has already given them a minimum number to go under.  In other words, "don't bring me anything less than x amount."

If that is the case, then the agent is just following the seller's request.

Raj

[GoldenKnight]

Do you have an agent that you work with personally that is YOUR agent? Have you threatened to go thru another agent? If worse comes to worse, you can always make the offer personally to the homeowner and cut out the agents altogether - MORE PROFIT FOR YOU!  

Robert

[henryinma]

Do you have an agent that you work with personally that is YOUR agent? Have you threatened to go thru another agent? If worse comes to worse, you can always make the offer personally to the homeowner and cut out the agents altogether - MORE PROFIT FOR YOU!  

Robert

That's one of the biggest misconceptions out there. Once a property is on MLS, that usually means the seller signed a listing agreement. 99% of the listing agreement says that you will owe the realty firm from 4-7% of the sales price if the house is sold in 90 days or whatever. Go directly to the homeowner or the realty firm and if it sells, they owe the realty firm the money. There's no cutting out the realty firm once the contract is signed and it's signed before it you see it on MLS. In that case the homeowner mind as well make the realtor earn their commission by letting them do all the work.

The only way to cut them out is to wait for the contract to expire and by that time, there may already be another buyer.

[Redtigress]

I spoke with mat at QUITE some length about this last night in the chat room.  The problem is that he's dealing with a foreclosure and the bank's agent refuses to send to the bank the offer he has made.

My advice to him was:
1) Report the agent to the local licensing and regulatory body
2) Fax his offer directly to the bank
3) Report the agent to the bank he represents
4) Ask the agent WHY he won't present the offer
5) Find another house

I also reminded him of what someone else said earlier about if the agent has been instructed to only forward offers for full list price or what ever if he's below that then the agent won't forward it.

I tried to explain to him that he, as a consumer, other than to report the agent had no recourse he could take directly against the agent since the agent doesn't represent him.   I don't know what else to tell you, mat.  

[REO]

REO agents don't just not submitt offers to their sellers. We go by whatever our listing agreement states. We are always told how to submit offers, by their rules. Any agent that just simply did not submit an offer, could easily loose that corporate account. Only a fool would let that happen. My first guess is there's more to this story. Most corporate listings require all offers be submitted with proof of funds and copy of the EMD. Was this submitted with your offer? Is your offer being presented in the proper format, by your agent?

Faxing you offer directly to the bank is a joke. Calling the bank on the agent is a joke. Try it, most cases it will be impossible. Way too much wasted time.

I just can't see where this is agents controlling the market. I would call the listing agent direct and ask. They should tell you what 's the deal. I have other agents' buyers calling me all the time to ask questions. I tell them exactly the situation, without telling them their agent is screwing them up. Happens all the time.

[DougON]

Seeing as I also live and invest in Ontario, perhaps I can shed some light on the matter.

First, banks are notorious for demanding above market value for power of sale properties and will sit on them at inflated prices for a very long time because they can be sued by the borrower if they can't prove that they made every effort to get the maximum price.

Eventually, if the house sits long enough the bank will become very anxious to get rid of it. But they will never take a very low price. You're far more likely to convince them to give you a mortgage with great terms to go along with a near-full price offer, than you are of convincing them to take a low price.

Secondly, the other part of the problem that your experiencing is no secret to anyone who's been investing or trying to invest in Ontario for any length of time. Regardless of the fact that realtors are legally and ethically bond to present all offers (unless specifically directed otherwise by the seller) 99% will not present an offer as far below the asking price as you're offering. I made hundreds upon hundreds of offers through agents before I figured out why none of them were being accepted or countered. When I became suspicious, I started calling the sellers myself and learned that they never even knew my offers existed.

Now I've heard of some tricks, like requiring that the seller sign a rejection, or including a fat deposit cheque with your offer, etc. More than likely that's a waste of time.

If you're going to work with realtors you're better off making the most conventional and closest-to-asking offer you can profitably manage.

[Infowell]

As a Realtor...I get a kick out of these types of posts.

First: Are you sure they're a Realtor? Not all Agents are Realtors. Being a Realtor simply means an Agent belongs to an organization.

REO & DougON are spot on--on this issue. Realtors aren't "trying to control the market"...that's ridiculous! Good Agents 'read the markets,' and report their findings to their clients. Those who'd buy a property for pennies on the dollar are simply frustrated when their offer isn't accepted, and are looking for somebody to blame (other than themselves). I mean...somebody nowadays just has to be blamed...right?

Example: We had an offer $10k (10+%) below asking price the other day. We called our client & asked if they wanted to accept, counter, or reject (they rejected). Out of courtesy we called the Agent & told them the seller rejected the offer.

You're what?...35+% under asking price!!! :o :o :o As others have stated, "perhaps the Agent has been instructed not to respond to offers less than a certain percentage under asking price." Perhaps the seller (insulted) instructed the Agent not to respond at all.

Know your market! If you're presenting ridiculous offers don't try to place the blame on someone else's doorstep for it not being accepted. Rather, educate yourself regarding market value.

Best of luck,

-Infowell

[DougON]

A couple other things to consider...
Unlike the US, Canada does not have siginificant regional differences in market conditions. In the US there are buyer's markets and seller's markets depending on where you live. Canada on the other hand is appreciating everywhere, some provinces more than others, but they are all going up. In Ontario, every city, every town, every little hick village is a rapidly appreciating seller's market.

With that in mind, consider your offer.  $122k to a $189k listing is a fool's game. No seller would ever accept an offer like that in this market, let alone someone with professional representation.

What you can do is look for houses that have been underpriced. Most get scooped up before they ever reach the open market, but a few slip through the cracks.  You won't find any that are 35% below market, but you might get something that's around 10% below market.

You can also look for unpopular house classes. In my area one of the most unpopular groups of houses are 30-40 year old 4 bedroom family homes. The reason is that these houses list for about the same as brand new houses of the same size, but the new houses are...well, new. They have modern features like large masters, ensuites and better quality kitchens. These features are hard to find in 35 year old homes, so the old houses sit on the market a lot longer and tend to have multiple price reductions.

Finally, I noticed you complained that 90% of the market is controlled by realtors. Well, the reality is that the deals you're looking for are 1% or less of the market and you're not going to find any of them by going through buyer or listing brokers. You have to speak directly to the decision maker.