Real Estate Investing Forums

Real Estate Investing => Bird Dogs, Wholesaling => Topic started by: ricksconnected on March 20, 2005, 12:42:50 pm

Title: bird dog
Post by: ricksconnected on March 20, 2005, 12:42:50 pm
im interested in learning how to bird dog. does anybody know where i can look to find info on this subject? does anybody know of barry j grimes course on bird dogging?
jobber course he calls it i think. is it worth the money? is his info correct and in "the real world" situations? can anybody point me in the right direction here ? ive read reviews on john locke's course. it left much to be desired at best, was the way most people sum it up. can anybody help ?
Title: Re:bird dog
Post by: DBS on March 20, 2005, 01:55:06 pm
Barry Grimes course is worth every penny!  I bought it and after reading it, wrote him a note saying it was the best grass roots information I had found on the subject.  I don't know Barry Grimes - I'm just a user like you.
Title: Re:bird dog
Post by: DBS on March 20, 2005, 03:04:37 pm
The course comes on a tiny little CD.  At first, I thought I had been had.  But the CD is packed with about 200 pages of "getting started" information including How to find real estate investors who will pay you to find properties, Getting Started (Building Your Business), Taking Action.  He also includes templates that I have personally used.  One is a contract that I use with my clients that says they agree to pay me 3% of the purchase price if my lead closes.  I'm probably doing a little more than the average bird dog does. I call myself a Lead Generation Service.  I'm a licensed real estate agent, so I actually analyze the deal against comps in the multiple list system and determine if the property is even worth turning over the client for further investigation.  I actually put together a proposal that I send to my potential clients outlining my services.  If they like what they see, I proceed with the contract.  To date, I've signed on with 2 investment groups (1 group of 50 investors and 1 group of 11 investors)  Each group is managed by an LLC and my contract is with the owner of the LLC, not the investor direct.  I forward my leads to the LLC and they find a match with one of their investors.  If it goes to settlement, I get paid.  You have to trust the relationship you have with the LLC.  The first time you don't get paid, you stop doing business with them.  Believe me, you will know if a deal you presented went to closing.  If you are suspicious, you can check the public record to see when it last transferred title.  Reputable investors will not try to cut you out because they will be black balled from the community if word gets out they cheated you.  The Barry Grimes course helped me to develop my guidelines and gave me good stuff to get started with.  I can't say that for some of the other snake oil salesmen out there.  Don't waste your money on expensive boot camps.  Most of the stuff they are selling you can be found FREE on the web if you look hard enough.  Barry Grimes gives you hand on, ready to "hit the road running" information.  Hope this helps you.  I'm new to this too, but not new to real estate.  Get your creative juices working for you and determine a need for your services in your area.  That's what I've done and so far, within the last 3 months, it is beginning to take seed.  Good luck.
Title: Re:bird dog
Post by: ricksconnected on March 20, 2005, 05:16:03 pm
THANK YOU DBS.
ok now. grimes claims theres over 900 pages in his course, is this true? i see lots of bird dog needs on sites. we are all asking the same questions. i think if they read your responces to my questions, alot of questions will be answered for lots of people. ive been putting off barry's course for a while for fear of being taken. i dont have money to waste on garbage courses, or boot camps. if you happen to know of any other web sites i can go to, please share. im starting to think barry's course is what im looking for. if you can give me any more pointers, i would be again greatful to you DBS.
Title: Re:bird dog
Post by: DBS on March 20, 2005, 06:25:48 pm
I just looked at my book again and there are 500+ pages in it and there are templates on the CD that I didn't print out.  I keep them on my hard drive.  The Mid Atlantic Real Estate Investors website (MAREIA.com) bulletin board answers lots of questions about bird dogging as well as The Creative Investor (TCI.com) site.  This website, REI, has just about the best of all three.  I personally do not waste money on courses.  You can get bombarded with everyone trying to sell you their "proven" method.  The only method "proven" is the one that puts a check in my hand.  The only thing I can tell you is that I was very satisfied with Barry Grimes information.  It wasn't overpriced and it was filled with useable information.
Title: Re:bird dog
Post by: tuffat on March 22, 2005, 11:52:22 pm
 :o  wow i am learning lots of information from this forums.  I am considering buying the grimes book and cd.  I could use the extra cash and i am constantly driving around in old and new neighborhoods while waiting on my clients to land at the airport.  
Title: Re:bird dog
Post by: ricksconnected on March 23, 2005, 12:00:47 am
ive visited other forums and have heard nothing but positive things about grimes course. if you read the
jobber 101, ( ebook) you will find he offers a relaxed easy to follow, easy to understand course on bird dogging.
Title: Re:bird dog
Post by: chilln2music on March 28, 2005, 06:21:50 pm
Does Barry Grimes course have any information on the transition from bird dog to dealer or retailor? I picked up "Flipping Properties" by Bronchick as a book to explain the basics but I'm just starting off and I think bird dogging might be the jump start into REI as right now I don't have funds to start dealing or retailing properties.

Also does anyone know possible income potential if one is bird dogging full time?
Title: Re:bird dog
Post by: ricksconnected on March 28, 2005, 08:01:48 pm
i just got the course last night. (barry j grimes )
i havent yet had the chance to start it. i can tell you one thing at this point, its packed full of info, documents, and software. it even came with a couple of e-books to boot.
i figured that if i were to learn more than i already knew, (which wasnt a whole lot) plus all the software, and the included e-books, how could i go wrong for $100.00
theres gotta be close to 1,000 pages here. im not even sure ive opened everything yet. its gonna take some time to go through this course.
Title: Re:bird dog
Post by: DBS on March 28, 2005, 08:13:06 pm
Trust me - you won't be disappointed.
Title: Re:bird dog
Post by: chilln2music on March 29, 2005, 04:12:38 pm
couple questions, DBS what is an LLC?

secondly has anyone heard of Robert J. Abalos? He's supposedly a well known experienced realtor and author.

He has this program on bird dogging:
http://www.investinginland.com/real_estate_bird_dog_system.htm

Both Barry's course and Robert's course are the same price but I'm interested in some of these topics Robert claims to cover:

legal guide
getting paid fast
becoming an investor
getting paid multiple times on same deal

I'm torn with which course to get because these are definitely some interesting topics that I am not sure Barry covers in his course.  DBS, any input???
Title: Re:bird dog
Post by: DBS on March 29, 2005, 07:13:37 pm
LLC stands for Limited Liability Corporation.  Investors will generally set themselves up as an LLC to protect their family by limiting their liability to only the assets of their business - in case they were to be sued.  

As for the author you referenced, I'm sorry but I've never heard of him so I can't pass an opinion.  I do know, however, that John Cash Locke is another very good bird dog guru.  You might want to check into his stuff as well.
Title: Re:bird dog
Post by: WilsonTaylor on March 29, 2005, 09:24:52 pm
LLC stands for Limited Liability Corporation.  

Close.  LLC stands for Limited Liability Company.  All corporations are a method of limiting liability.

Wilson
Title: Re:bird dog
Post by: rtriolo on March 30, 2005, 12:44:23 am
Quote
secondly has anyone heard of Robert J. Abalos? He's supposedly a well known experienced realtor and author.
In response to this question, I ran into this forum:
 
www.buyincomeproperties.com/forums/Real_Estate_Investing/posts/45.html

I also researched his company on the BBB.  He has an unsatifactory record.
Title: Re:bird dog
Post by: chilln2music on March 30, 2005, 11:41:07 am
Thanks for the replies!

I decided to go with Barry Grimes' course after reading his free e-book. I like his writing style and has received many compliments regarding his real estate jobbing course. I'm looking forward to getting started in the real estate business.
Title: Re:bird dog
Post by: dtallia on March 31, 2005, 12:11:41 pm
I am a investor from the Northern NJ area, I currently have 3 bird dogs that I use.  Pending on the deal, I usually pay between 1,000 - 5,000.  My area of speciality is Northern NJ.  More dogs, the better.  Thats how I see it....


 - David T.

Title: Re:bird dog
Post by: chilln2music on March 31, 2005, 03:40:19 pm
Hi David...I can understand the more the better. All you do is sit back and get the leads. I don't plan on "bird dogging" for more than 6 months but I can't make money without money so this is a good option to at least recognize and find good deals and investors because....

I really want to get into double closeing and wholesaling, at least through my last year of college. Do you have any tips for me as a beginner just getting into real estate? Also, is it possible if the cards are played out correctly, to walk away from a double close without putting any of my own money down on a deal? I'm just starting to read some real estate books but I really enjoy these forums as a place to learn...
Title: Re:bird dog
Post by: wrx2m3 on April 01, 2005, 01:44:44 am
David,
Getting into birddogging myself I had a question for you. AS a birddogger do I go around and look for distressed properties and then forward those to my investors? Or does the birddog go out and find "motivated sellers" that have FSBO? What exactly does the birddogger look for?
Title: Re:bird dog
Post by: dtallia on April 01, 2005, 05:18:27 am
My requirement would be to have the bird dog go around and look for "Distressed Properties" only. Remember, Distressed Properties=Motivated Sellers.  Motivated Sellers does not always mean distress properties.  I don't work with realtors in this situation.  Simply because My Purchase Agreement contains the assignment clause just incase if I want to flip.  Realtor contracts "DO NOT HAVE THIS CLAUSE."  Yes, I look at FSBO's and FRBO's.(For Rent By Owners)   I don't look for leads from Bird Dogs.  I coach the bird dog to tie the property under my requirements and flip it over to me.  As long as the deal is good.  ALSO, I have the Bird Dogs to go out and look for unhappy landlords who wants to sell their units as well.  

For every bird dog, I use partnership agreements that I fax to them.  They sign and fax back to me.  By doing this, they know they will get paid.  The partnership agreement is structured so either I or the bird won't lose out.  Its protection on both sides.  Since I require the bird dog to do more, I pay them more $$$.  Its between $1,000 - $10,000 per deal executed guaranteed....  


 - David T.




David,
Getting into birddogging myself I had a question for you. AS a birddogger do I go around and look for distressed properties and then forward those to my investors? Or does the birddog go out and find "motivated sellers" that have FSBO? What exactly does the birddogger look for?
Title: Re:bird dog
Post by: chilln2music on April 04, 2005, 07:17:39 pm
DBS, I have  a question for you. I just received Barry Grimes course and read volume 1 and skimmed 2. I was curious, how long ago did you actually finish the ebook and apply the ideas? I know in this thread you said its really only came together the past 3 months...I know I have a lot of work ahead of me I'd just like to know what to expect in terms of how long it took to consistantly getting multiple paid leads a month...thanks for the input so far!
Title: Re:bird dog
Post by: DBS on April 04, 2005, 08:22:16 pm
Give yourself at least 2 months to digest the information and start a system.  Don't take on too much at one time or your head will be spinning.  Being organized is important.  I received my first check about 2 1/2 months after getting started.  In the beginning, you will be doing a lot of work and not seeing any money.  But as you begin to understand what the investor needs, you will become valuable.  The next thing is to advertise your services on some of these websites.  I usually meet face to face first to see if we are a good match and then I sign an agreement with the client and put together a profile of his needs.  Then I go to work finding properties that match their criteria and sending them ASAP.  In today's market, the deals don't hang around too long, so you've gotta move quickly.  Good luck.  Don't get frustrated, overwhelmed or discouraged.  It will all come together.  I thoroughly working with my investors.  Its a great feeling when you've brought them a profitable deal.  Good luck.
Title: Re:bird dog
Post by: rosario on April 30, 2005, 10:31:00 am
Hello DBS,

I am a newbie to the RI game.  I read in one of your posts that you are a real estate agent/investor.  I am currently working on getting my real estate license and would also like to invest in real estate.  I would like to start off being a bird dog.

Does having your license conflict with being a bird dog?  How does this work for you?

I noticed you do lead generation.  Can you tell me some more about this?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re:bird dog
Post by: DBS on May 04, 2005, 01:18:41 am
I have contracts with 2 investment groups (about 50 total investors).  I identify investment leads for them, put together the contract, negotiate the deal and facilitate the closing for a fee - usually 5-10% of the purchase price based upon how much of  my service they use.  If they want to do their own contract and facilitate the closing, the fee is 5%.  My contract with my real estate broker does not preclude me from doing this.  You will need to check with your broker to see how much of your fee he will want to claim.  It all depends on the contract you have with your broker.  
Title: Re:bird dog
Post by: karlakr on May 04, 2005, 10:44:25 pm
OK, DBS or anyone,

So what would be the main difference between bird dogging a deal..........

AND..........

doing an option on a property and finding a buyer to pay more than you're paying?

Advantages one over the other?
Difference in how much you can make?
Does bird dogging just entail less of the actual purchase?

I understand the definition of each and how they differs, I guess the end reslut just seems very similar to me.
What am I missing?

Karla in Amarillo

Title: Re:bird dog
Post by: chilln2music on May 04, 2005, 11:51:00 pm
main difference, wholesalers do a LOT more than just find "potential" deals. They have to facilitate everything from determining profits by analyzing repairs, fmv, market trend, etc. all the way to negotiating a price and getting it on paper, finding a buyer, making sure the deal closes etc...there's just a whole lot more involved.

Bird dogs simply find potential deals and send them to a list of investors. They don't need to see if it is truly a great deal, thats the investors job...

Wholesaling can potentially provide thousands more a month than a bird dog...

Good Luck!
Title: Re:bird dog
Post by: ricksconnected on May 05, 2005, 12:05:29 am
thousands ?
Title: Re:bird dog
Post by: chilln2music on May 05, 2005, 03:21:43 pm
Can't attest to this statement myself YET but yea thousands more a month wholesaling, I've talked to investors myself and gathered a lot of information from the internet. I suggest checking it out...unless of course you're in the Orlando area, I don't want any more competition!
Title: Re:bird dog
Post by: dburg507 on May 07, 2005, 02:09:33 pm
My requirement would be to have the bird dog go around and look for "Distressed Properties" only. Remember, Distressed Properties=Motivated Sellers.  Motivated Sellers does not always mean distress properties.  I don't work with realtors in this situation.  Simply because My Purchase Agreement contains the assignment clause just incase if I want to flip.  Realtor contracts "DO NOT HAVE THIS CLAUSE."  Yes, I look at FSBO's and FRBO's.(For Rent By Owners)   I don't look for leads from Bird Dogs.  I coach the bird dog to tie the property under my requirements and flip it over to me.  As long as the deal is good.  ALSO, I have the Bird Dogs to go out and look for unhappy landlords who wants to sell their units as well.  

For every bird dog, I use partnership agreements that I fax to them.  They sign and fax back to me.  By doing this, they know they will get paid.  The partnership agreement is structured so either I or the bird won't lose out.  Its protection on both sides.  Since I require the bird dog to do more, I pay them more $$$.  Its between $1,000 - $10,000 per deal executed guaranteed....  


 - David T.

Hi David,

 What does your partnership agreement look like?
Title: Bird Dog
Post by: ljp on May 16, 2005, 01:47:41 pm
To DBS,

As a Real Estate Agent, are the houses you find for investors, listed in the MLS?

For Example:  If I found a house in your area, called you because you were the listing agent, ..... do you then contact the Investor? And if I buy the house from you, you get the commission from the Real Estate Broker Office and the Investor?

Sounds to good to be true ;-)



Title: Re:bird dog
Post by: DBS on May 16, 2005, 04:01:40 pm
To answer your question, most of the properties I find for investors are NOT in MLS.  They are distressed properties that I have found and contacted the owner who usually wants to sell.  I give the lead to my clients, and if they are interested, I submit the offer for them.  Some of my leads are also from other investors who want to sell their inventory.  I pass the lead to my investor client and submit the contract offer.  In this scenario, I get paid by the  Buyer for both the lead and the contract preparation and negotiation.

 IF by some chance, I find something cheap and interesting in MLS, I refer it to my investor client.  If interested, I submit the offer to the listing agent on behalf of the Buyer (Buyer's Agent). In this scenario, I am paid by the SELLER.  The Buyer does not pay.  
Title: Re:bird dog
Post by: ljp on May 17, 2005, 08:15:11 am
DBS,
Thank you.

What do you think about this?
I found a distressed property. Looked it up and found it was sold at Sheriff Sale about 1 year ago. Found out it was bought at the auction by the Plaintiff ( Which was Fannie Mae)  I called Fannie Mae, and they said they had just turned it over to a Real Estate Broker in my area ( a well know Real Estate Company) Fannie Mae gave me the contract name, so I emailed her.  She said she would get back to me with a listing price. After 1 month, I emailed her again, and she said it was just open THAT Day. An gave me the listing price.  I pass the house daily, and it's been about 37 days, and there is not a For Sale sign on the property.  In her last email, she said she had many people interested in the property.
What do you think is going on?  Do you think she is not putting the sign out for a reason? Do you have any ideas on this?
PS. It still is NOT listed on the MLS.

DBS, Thanks again for answering all the questions on this forum. We really appreciate your time.

Title: Re:bird dog
Post by: DBS on May 17, 2005, 10:09:18 am
First of all, you're welcomed.  I sure don't know everything, but I'll share whatever I know.

If that property you mention was a Fannie Mae property, the owner has a certain amount of time to redeem himself.  Here in Maryland it is 30 days from date of first notice.  So, legally, a sign cannot be put on the property until that time is up.  Another thing to note is that a For Sale sign on any property is not mandatory.  If an owner doesn't want a sign on his house, the agent can't put one on it.  Some people just don't want their neighbors knowing they are selling or they don't want passers-by dropping in.  When Fannie Mae turns the property over to an agent to list, he is given a "lock out" date which means this is the date the house is officially LOCKED and the owner cannot enter again.  THEN, the agent can put it in multiple list and accept offers.  He may never even put a sign on it.  Many people (myself included) go to the courthouse periodically and identify pre-foreclosure houses and keep track of their time frame for my investor clients.  Many times, we approach the seller prior to foreclosure and make them an offer.  Here in Maryland, however, a new law has just recently been passed that precludes anyone from approaching people in pre-foreclosure, therefore, my clients are forced now to track them in multiple list.  I hope I've shed some light on this for you.  There is a lot involved but its worth it if you can get a property this way.  
Title: Re:bird dog
Post by: Mark-Austin-TX on May 17, 2005, 11:36:53 pm
==========DAVID===========
you wrote
[Realtor contracts "DO NOT HAVE THIS CLAUSE."]
referring to legal flips..

If I understand you correctly, you are saying you cannot use a state promulgated re-sale contract containing:
 
[...Joe Shmo to sell to... "Jane Smith *Or assignee* " (allowing you to flip/wholesale the property)
-Assignee being the person you sell to, while in escrow.

I'm a Realtor here in Austin and I've used this in several offers..
Your thoughts?

MC
Title: Re:bird dog
Post by: DBS on May 18, 2005, 08:13:05 am
Yes.  If you are going to assign the contract, you shouldn't use the state form.  At least, here in Maryland, we have a "Do not assign" clause in our state form.  I don't use it if someone is going to flip the property.  For investors, I have a contract that is short and sweet with no such clause in it.  It was given to me by a lawyer so I feel confident it is a goo document.
Title: Re:bird dog
Post by: Roger J on May 18, 2005, 01:04:52 pm
Actually, DBS, it's pretty easy to adjust the "standard" REALTOR purchase and sell contract for assigning.

First, list your name (or company) with the usual "and/or assigns or nominees,"  in the buyer's spot.

Second, cross out the contract line that says something to the effect, "this contract is not assignable unless both parties agree to it in writing" and initial and date at the cross-out.  The seller must initial and date this change in contract as well.

And now, you have a fully assignable standard contract.

Raj
Title: Re:bird dog
Post by: DBS on May 18, 2005, 01:11:46 pm
Raj:

I don't know about your State's laws, but here in Maryland it says on the contract that we cannot edit any of the contract - if we do, we can lose our license.  
Title: Re:bird dog
Post by: Roger J on May 18, 2005, 01:20:33 pm
Wow,

That's pretty strict.  Yeah, in NC, I've crossed out several things before.  Purchase price has been crossed out and printed in several times on the same form.

The key point is that BOTH parties have to have initials and dates beside EVERY change in the contract.

I guess I should have added:  "verify your own state laws before attempting."

Thanks, DBS

Raj
Title: Re:bird dog
Post by: DBS on May 18, 2005, 01:24:56 pm
Raj:

We can do some of the same things you can - like changing prices with initials, etc. - But we can't cross out or edit entire paragraphs without getting in trouble.  You're right - it all varies state to state.
Title: Re:bird dog
Post by: Bayarea on July 07, 2005, 06:38:49 pm
Bird dog, where can I find that contract that you're using?  thanks!
Title: Re:bird dog
Post by: DBS on July 07, 2005, 10:54:51 pm
Not sure if it was me (DBS) who you were talking to, but you can get the contract I mention from a realtor.  
Title: BG
Post by: JustAFollower on July 08, 2005, 08:34:46 pm
About that Barry Grimes guy...  He's good.  Although all of those free reports drive me crazy!  He one of the few though that could convince me.  Essentially he could have summed his 119 pages in a couple of sentences.  Start birddoging for investors and get paid.  I can help, buy my program.  It probably wouldn't be as effective or inviting but... that's basically all he said in all of that.  That whole diary thing in the report was pretty slick.  A little red herring falacy thing going on... If nothing else he's a good writer :)
Title: Re:bird dog - DBS or anyone in Maryland
Post by: el4realestate on July 19, 2005, 09:02:39 am
DBS - I came across your reply below and wanted to ask you a question. I am also in MD. You indicated the following in your message ....

"Here in Maryland, however, a new law has just recently been passed that precludes anyone from approaching people in pre-foreclosure, therefore, my clients are forced now to track them in multiple list. ".

What does "therefore, my clients are forced now to track them in multiple list" mean.  

How do your clients get pre-foreclosure deals?
Title: Re:bird dog
Post by: DBS on July 19, 2005, 10:30:57 am
The new law allows real estate agents to pursue pre-foreclosures and REOs.  Therefore, if you want to pursue these,  an agent will need to do it for you.  From what I understand, the Maryland Association of Realtors had a good lobbyist in Annapolis during the signing of this law who worked to allow agents, who are held to a strict code of ethics, to help people in foreclosure.  
Title: Re:bird dog
Post by: el4realestate on July 19, 2005, 10:57:41 am
Interesting. So the private investor who doesn't want to use an agent is screwed.  

BTW, I have nothing against agents. We have a family friend who has been practicing Real Settlements for 25 years so we were planning on contacting the pre-foreclosures ourselves and then having the settlement company draw up the contract and other necessary paperwork.
Title: Re:bird dog
Post by: DBS on July 19, 2005, 11:17:01 am
Yes, unfortunately, this is the case.  It seems that too many not so nice people were preying on people in pre-foreclosure and foreclosure which makes it bad for everyone.  If agents do that, we can be fined heavily or lose our license all together.  If you have a friend who is an agent, form a partnership with them and work out a reasonable fee.  I'm sure he/she will be glad to work with you.  
Title: Re:bird dog
Post by: afterdigital on July 19, 2005, 03:10:32 pm
I am a investor from the Northern NJ area, I currently have 3 bird dogs that I use.  Pending on the deal, I usually pay between 1,000 - 5,000.  My area of speciality is Northern NJ.  More dogs, the better.  Thats how I see it....


 - David T.



David

could you shoot me an email with your contact info in case i find properties for you?

my email is [email protected]