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Miscellaneous => Random Ramblings => Topic started by: wallacehobbs on June 09, 2008, 07:17:31 am

Title: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: wallacehobbs on June 09, 2008, 07:17:31 am
Who do you think will be a better
President for Real Estate Investors
best interest?

Mccain or Obama?

Why do you think so?


Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: mcwagner on June 09, 2008, 09:13:26 am
neither.  they're both democrats.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: Foreclosure Negotiator on June 09, 2008, 11:17:45 am
I'm still voting for Ron Paul.  I doubt he'll win, but I like to day dream about living as a 'Free Man'.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: dd564 on June 09, 2008, 01:07:22 pm
Wow, after Bush has done so well for 8 years, you gotta give the Repubs 4 more years to finalize their already working plans to do the following:

1. Balance the budget
2.  Lower healthcare expenses
3.  Make food and fuel more affordable.


Why change horses in mid-stream after 8 successful years.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: Hoosier4life2005 on June 09, 2008, 01:28:47 pm
Im voting for Obama.  There is only one person who I would rather have as president, and that is Ron Paul(Paul is the obvious choice).  But because Paul has no chance to win, im going Obama so I can keep Mccain out of office.

NO way can we afford another Bush term, and if you get Mccain, your getting a lot like another Bush term.(Although I must say, he is better than much, almost every1 is better than Bush)
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: dd564 on June 09, 2008, 01:50:41 pm
Im voting for Obama.  There is only one person who I would rather have as president, and that is Ron Paul(Paul is the obvious choice).  But because Paul has no chance to win, im going Obama so I can keep Mccain out of office.

NO way can we afford another Bush term, and if you get Mccain, your getting a lot like another Bush term.(Although I must say, he is better than much, almost every1 is better than Bush)

What?  Man, you're crazy. 

By voting for Obama you are a socialist and a socialist is a communist and we are a free nation but you want communism.  Way to not support our troops you non-patriotic traitor!

Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: Bluemoon06 on June 09, 2008, 02:08:50 pm
Obama will be the next president.  I say this because we are in the good old USA the home of Paris Hilton.  Here in a presidential election since Nixon the better looking of the 2 (not a good looking but the better of the 2) always wins.  [Carter v Ford] [Reagan v Carter] [Reagan v Mondal] [Bush v Dukkas] [Clinton v Bush] [Clinton v Dole] [Bush v Gore] [Bush v Kerry].  With that being said the only chance that the Republicans had is if Romney had won.  Obama is a good looking man... McCain is not.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: makethemoneyonthebuy on June 09, 2008, 02:32:26 pm
Wow, dd564 do you need a hug or something?  Anyways It really doesn't matter who will be in there it is going to be different than the last four years, change happens and usually doesn't come from the Prez. Congress yes, prez. no. What ever does happen we will adjust. Just like every other time. You are more likely to be affected from a local stand point.  Keep and eye on your city, county, and state reps.
Brian

Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: Hoosier4life2005 on June 09, 2008, 03:23:02 pm
Im voting for Obama.  There is only one person who I would rather have as president, and that is Ron Paul(Paul is the obvious choice).  But because Paul has no chance to win, im going Obama so I can keep Mccain out of office.

NO way can we afford another Bush term, and if you get Mccain, your getting a lot like another Bush term.(Although I must say, he is better than much, almost every1 is better than Bush)

What?  Man, you're crazy. 

By voting for Obama you are a socialist and a socialist is a communist and we are a free nation but you want communism.  Way to not support our troops you non-patriotic traitor!



Crazy huh?

Your Republicans have increased the national debt from 5 to 9 trillion dollars in debt in 8 years.  That is crazy.  It will be around 14-15 trillion if Mccain gets elected.

I am a Republican, a Republican whos has enough of this complete joke.

The idea of the Republicans is good, but they arent following it.  This war is a joke, the way Bush-Mccain spend money is a joke, its all a complete joke and I cant believe you call me un-patriotic for voting for a Democrat.

SUPPORT OUR TROOPS?  Ohh man.  This war shouldnt have even been started in the 1st place.  Listen to Ron Paul, hes the only Republican who seems to get it.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: mcprops on June 09, 2008, 03:51:13 pm
 I think dd564 was being sarcastic to make a point (at least I hope)
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: kdhastedt on June 09, 2008, 04:11:11 pm

I would guess "maybe"...

At least when he said, "By voting for Obama you are a socialist and a socialist is a communist and we are a free nation but you want communism.  Way to not support our troops you non-patriotic traitor!", he was 'spot-on'!

Keith
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: propertymanager on June 09, 2008, 04:54:40 pm
Hoosier,

You are thinking about the wrong business if you're backing Osama.  He IS a socialist who wants government to control everything in this country, including private enterprise.  I do agree with you that Bush is not a conservative and has done a terrible job with government spending.  However, I believe that he has generally done a good job on the war.  We have decimated Al Qaeda in Iraq and the war was worth it just for that.  I hope you're not tired of war yet, because Iran MUST be dealt with in the next few months.  If we don't do it, Israel MUST or they simply won't survive.

I know that you're getting toward the end of school.  It's a shame that they don't teach history anymore.  If they did, you would know that you can't appease tyrants and Osama's idea of "talking" with our enemies is just plain appeasement.

The next few years with President Osama will be a disaster for business.

Mike
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: Hoosier4life2005 on June 09, 2008, 06:01:10 pm
Hoosier,

You are thinking about the wrong business if you're backing Osama.  He IS a socialist who wants government to control everything in this country, including private enterprise.  I do agree with you that Bush is not a conservative and has done a terrible job with government spending.  However, I believe that he has generally done a good job on the war.  We have decimated Al Qaeda in Iraq and the war was worth it just for that.  I hope you're not tired of war yet, because Iran MUST be dealt with in the next few months.  If we don't do it, Israel MUST or they simply won't survive.

I know that you're getting toward the end of school.  It's a shame that they don't teach history anymore.  If they did, you would know that you can't appease tyrants and Osama's idea of "talking" with our enemies is just plain appeasement.

The next few years with President Osama will be a disaster for business.

Mike

Mike,

oBama says he will only meet and talk with them under his conditions and at his place.  Why not have open communication with your enemies if they are at your location?

I have some issues that I disagree with on Obama, but they pale is comparison to the ones with Mccain. Mccain offerers alot of the same policies at the Bush administration.

"I feel that America has made some great strides within the last decade."  says Mccain.

Tell that to the HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of people who lost their jobs within the last few months.

I dont know about you guys, but I have no idea what country Mccain is talking about.  Going from 5 to 9 Trillion dollars in debt is not a "good stride"

The main reason why Obama gets my support is because Mccain and many Republicans dont even recognize that there is a problem.  Atleast Obama recognizes it. You may not agree with Obamas views, but you cant say he is BLIND about it like Mccain.

Again, I am a Republican, and do not like many views of the Democrats.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: Bluemoon06 on June 09, 2008, 09:16:33 pm
Why not have open communication with your enemies if they are at your location?

These people don't want to know anything about us.  They are not going to be convinced that we deserve to be here living like we do.  All we can do for them is to die.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: kdhastedt on June 10, 2008, 07:16:38 am

<<oBama says he will only meet and talk with them under his conditions and at his place.  Why not have open communication with your enemies if they are at your location?>>

Never, ever, ever negotiate with Terrorists!  Period!

Keith
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: dd564 on June 10, 2008, 07:18:54 am
Hoosier,

You are thinking about the wrong business if you're backing Osama.  He IS a socialist who wants government to control everything in this country, including private enterprise.  I do agree with you that Bush is not a conservative and has done a terrible job with government spending.  However, I believe that he has generally done a good job on the war.  We have decimated Al Qaeda in Iraq and the war was worth it just for that.  I hope you're not tired of war yet, because Iran MUST be dealt with in the next few months.  If we don't do it, Israel MUST or they simply won't survive.

I know that you're getting toward the end of school.  It's a shame that they don't teach history anymore.  If they did, you would know that you can't appease tyrants and Osama's idea of "talking" with our enemies is just plain appeasement.

The next few years with President Osama will be a disaster for business.

Mike

Fear-mongering.

How close to West Virginia do you live?  I respect your advice about real estate and rentals, but to repeatedly get his name wrong shows either

#1  A lack of knowledge on your part

And / Or

#2  A real need to fear-monger votes

How is Obama any closer to being Osama Bin Laden than you are?
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: dd564 on June 10, 2008, 07:23:14 am
I think dd564 was being sarcastic to make a point (at least I hope)

Ding Ding.  Winner winner chicken dinner!

I laugh how Propertymanager Mike goes into his fear mongering playbook by calling Obama "Osama" three times.

When I choose a candidate to vote for, I'll always support the side who uses Name Calling as fear-mongering tactic!

Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: kdhastedt on June 10, 2008, 07:27:01 am
I laugh how Propertymanager Mike goes into his fear mongering playbook by calling Obama "Osama" three times.

You say tomato, I say tomatoe but at the end of the day, it's the same thing...

Keith
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: dd564 on June 10, 2008, 07:40:29 am
I laugh how Propertymanager Mike goes into his fear mongering playbook by calling Obama "Osama" three times.

You say tomato, I say tomatoe but at the end of the day, it's the same thing...

Keith

Wow!  This is unbelievable.  Where do you live.  Do people actually talk like that where you are at.  Frequent exchanges of Osama for Obama?

How patriotic of you to call another American citizen the name of a leading terrorist with no grounds whatsoever.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: kdhastedt on June 10, 2008, 07:43:17 am
You say Obama, I say socialist money grabber....and, at the end of the day, it's the same thing.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: Hoosier4life2005 on June 10, 2008, 07:51:22 am
Mccain is the one who totally ignoring how the middle class and poor are struggling right now.   How American is it to ignore like 97%+ of the Americans?  If anybody has been un-American in this whole ordeal its Bush, and Mccain follows his exact principals.

(I dont want to hear any Mccain-army hero stuff, thats not what this is about)
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: justin0419 on June 10, 2008, 01:08:34 pm
Hoosier,
I know from previous posts you have firsthand personal experience with your father's job loss, jobs moving overseas, etc.  Understand that the Democrats are of course going to pander the poor...that's their point...bigger government fixes everything.  The poor are not being ignored because there is welfare, WIC, and other government programs to help.  There are many many people out there getting govt assistance that shouldn't be or that are receiving it for too long.  We shouldn't have a system that pays you to spit out more kids when you aren't even working in the first place.  It's a pretty simple principle.  If my family couldn't afford a dog, we wouldn't get a dog.  There's no incentive for me to go get Fido from the pound if I can't afford it.  The big difference here is that there is financial incentive for someone on welfare to have more kids.  There are plenty of people out there who could work, but there is not enough of a financial incentive to do so because they will lose their handouts.  So they just choose to stay at home.  It's easier to wake up when you want and watch tv than to work.       
I have a HUGE problem with a potential leader of our nation sitting down and negotiating with our known adversaries.  Making this one seemingly harmless move (in Democrats' eyes) will set a precedent that goes against how we operate and engage our enemies as a country.  I can tell you there are plenty of things we do on a national level that show we as a country don't care about other nations' claims if they try to operate outside the boundaries of international law.  You don't have tea and crumpets with leaders who openly want to wipe other countries off the map for merely existing.  It doesn't matter what we say to these people.  If you're not one of them, you are an infidel and need to die. 
As a side note, McCain is a Navy vet (although I'm sure Keith likes your army reference) who has endured many personal struggles and termoil for our country.  I greatly respect him for that.  I sure hope you know something about his history of service to our country because of what you said.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: Hoosier4life2005 on June 10, 2008, 03:25:37 pm
Hoosier,
I know from previous posts you have firsthand personal experience with your father's job loss, jobs moving overseas, etc.  Understand that the Democrats are of course going to pander the poor...that's their point...bigger government fixes everything.  The poor are not being ignored because there is welfare, WIC, and other government programs to help.  There are many many people out there getting govt assistance that shouldn't be or that are receiving it for too long.  We shouldn't have a system that pays you to spit out more kids when you aren't even working in the first place.  It's a pretty simple principle.  If my family couldn't afford a dog, we wouldn't get a dog.  There's no incentive for me to go get Fido from the pound if I can't afford it.  The big difference here is that there is financial incentive for someone on welfare to have more kids.  There are plenty of people out there who could work, but there is not enough of a financial incentive to do so because they will lose their handouts.  So they just choose to stay at home.  It's easier to wake up when you want and watch tv than to work.       
I have a HUGE problem with a potential leader of our nation sitting down and negotiating with our known adversaries.  Making this one seemingly harmless move (in Democrats' eyes) will set a precedent that goes against how we operate and engage our enemies as a country.  I can tell you there are plenty of things we do on a national level that show we as a country don't care about other nations' claims if they try to operate outside the boundaries of international law.  You don't have tea and crumpets with leaders who openly want to wipe other countries off the map for merely existing.  It doesn't matter what we say to these people.  If you're not one of them, you are an infidel and need to die. 
As a side note, McCain is a Navy vet (although I'm sure Keith likes your army reference) who has endured many personal struggles and termoil for our country.  I greatly respect him for that.  I sure hope you know something about his history of service to our country because of what you said.

I am aware of him being a POW and everything.  I have great respect for Mccain as a person, but his policies closley resemble Bush.  The National Debt is a joke thanks to those exact policies.

To be clear, when I said Mccain was "unAmerican" I didnt mean it the way it came off.  Obviously he is a great American.  I was just  defending Obamas policies as opposed to Mccains.  Mccains policies seem to forget about the middle class and poor and only help the rich, which is complete BS if you ask me.

If it werent for my dad having a degree, he would be still out of work after getting laid off, like many of his friends.  I find it incredible that people are voting for Mccains policies despite the joke unemployement rate.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: propertymanager on June 10, 2008, 04:57:22 pm
Hoosier,

The coming election is not about Bush.  The coming election is about our way of life.  It's actually quite simple.   The choice is between complete socialism with Barack Hussein and very liberal capitalism with McCain.  To be quite honest, I don't like either one and will probably not vote for either.  I'm waiting to get the complete picture on Bob Barr to see if I could vote for him.  Obviously, Barr will not win and we're probably headed for full blown socialism, which will be an absolute disaster for the country and certainly a disaster for entrepreneurs and business people (including real estate investors).

You talked in your post about your friends who are laid off.  What you may not realize is that government can NOT effectively provide jobs - it just does not work.  In fact, government is a failure at just about everything it does.  So, if you don't like the idea of your friends being laid off now, just wait until the socialists take over and businesses abandon the United States en masse.

We're in our current situation with the high gas and food prices now because we've allowed a few wacko environmentalists to dictate policy.  Clinton prevented the drilling in ANWR more than 10 years ago.  The wackos have stopped wind farms off Cape Cod because Ted Kennedy didn't want the wind turbines to spoil the view in the area where he sails his yacht.  The wackos also have prevented nuclear power plants from being built. 

If you want to fix these problems, what we really need is lower taxes; less regulation; FAR FEWER HANDOUTS; and more capitalism.

Mike
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: furnishedowner on June 10, 2008, 06:57:13 pm
I don't like the name-calling or slurs on candidates either. I think it diminishes the writer.

Hoosier, you are pretty amazing for a high school student! You can lock horns with anyone and hold your own.
Furnishedowner
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: Hoosier4life2005 on June 10, 2008, 07:26:43 pm
Hoosier,

The coming election is not about Bush.  The coming election is about our way of life.  It's actually quite simple.   The choice is between complete socialism with Barack Hussein and very liberal capitalism with McCain.  To be quite honest, I don't like either one and will probably not vote for either.  I'm waiting to get the complete picture on Bob Barr to see if I could vote for him.  Obviously, Barr will not win and we're probably headed for full blown socialism, which will be an absolute disaster for the country and certainly a disaster for entrepreneurs and business people (including real estate investors).

You talked in your post about your friends who are laid off.  What you may not realize is that government can NOT effectively provide jobs - it just does not work.  In fact, government is a failure at just about everything it does.  So, if you don't like the idea of your friends being laid off now, just wait until the socialists take over and businesses abandon the United States en masse.

We're in our current situation with the high gas and food prices now because we've allowed a few wacko environmentalists to dictate policy.  Clinton prevented the drilling in ANWR more than 10 years ago.  The wackos have stopped wind farms off Cape Cod because Ted Kennedy didn't want the wind turbines to spoil the view in the area where he sails his yacht.  The wackos also have prevented nuclear power plants from being built. 

If you want to fix these problems, what we really need is lower taxes; less regulation; FAR FEWER HANDOUTS; and more capitalism.

Mike

I understand exactly what your saying Mike.  I prefer Ron Paul over anybody.  I love Ron Paul. Im just really sour at the way the Republicans have handed me horrible economy at the worst time of my life, just getting out of HS.  The way of Bush is cann ot continue.

Im just a Republican boyyyyy, livin' in uh' corupppppt worrrlllld( my desperate attemp to sing a made up song closely resembling Dont Stop Believing.)
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: tatertot on June 11, 2008, 10:08:57 am
[[[[......Your Republicans have increased the national debt from 5 to 9 trillion dollars in debt in 8 years....]]]]

The president does not write the national budget and has no control at all over the budget, other than a very weak blanket veto power to make congress start completely over. The veto can be over-ridden.

Congress controls the budget. Congress controls all the pork barrel projects. Who is it that has control over Congress? Here's a hint: it's not the Republicans.

The president's job, besides being a figure head, is to deal with international politics. Obama has zero experience with international politics. He is running on the exact same platform as Carter did (elect me, I'm outside the political establishment, so I'm different and better than a regular politctian) , and Carter was a total disaster in international politics. It's not an area for the inexperienced.

I suspect that there will be massive attacks on Israel when Obama is elected. He was very vocal about not being willing to defend Israel, and that's a big green light to several agressive countries in the middle east.

The effect of that will be a massive war in the middle east instead of  what is going on now, wiping up rebels and terrorists in Iraq. Announcing that the USA is planning to throw Israel to the wolves is not the best way to get out of war in the middle east

I don't think Obama is a bad man. I just wish he'd waited an election or two while he learned more about politics. Some of the rulers of foreign countries that he will have to deal with are not such nice people and "reason" is not even in their vocabulary.

It takes 2 parties to make peace, and if the only thing that the other side wants is for everyone to die, there isn't a lot of room for negotiation.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: propertymanager on June 11, 2008, 04:06:16 pm
Quote
I suspect that there will be massive attacks on Israel when Obama is elected. He was very vocal about not being willing to defend Israel, and that's a big green light to several agressive countries in the middle east.

I think just the fact that Barack Hussein is running will force Israel to attack Iran BEFORE the election.  Israel can not afford to wait for Barack Hussein to take office and and become the chief appeaser.  They also can not afford to wait for Iran to have enough Uranium for a bomb.  So, I'm convinced that Israel WILL attack Iran before the election unless the US does so before that.  Unfortunately, I'm not sure that President Bush has the strength to do that, so Israel will probably have to do our dirty work for us once again.

BTW, there's a pretty good synopsis of what's going to happen in REVELATIONS!

Mike

Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: Hoosier4life2005 on June 11, 2008, 04:43:52 pm
2012 coming soon.

(If you don't know about 2012, just google it.)
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: d_sbrown on June 11, 2008, 07:02:37 pm
2012 coming soon.

(If you don't know about 2012, just google it.)
:rolleyes
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: Hoosier4life2005 on June 11, 2008, 07:10:31 pm
2012 coming soon.

(If you don't know about 2012, just google it.)
:rolleyes

You know its true, your just in denial!    :bobble
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: wallacehobbs on June 16, 2008, 08:33:53 am
2012 coming soon.

(If you don't know about 2012, just google it.)
:rolleyes

You know its true, your just in denial!    :bobble

2012, Oh no, but what about  2013, and 2014?
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: Hoosier4life2005 on June 16, 2008, 08:45:39 am
2012 coming soon.

(If you don't know about 2012, just google it.)
:rolleyes

You know its true, your just in denial!    :bobble

2012, Oh no, but what about  2013, and 2014?

Dont forget 2015.

No, but seriously, 2012.....  :cool
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: wallacehobbs on July 02, 2008, 08:19:26 am
Obama says "IF" he wins he will raise captial gains tax from an already
high 15% to 28%,  that is  :bs
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: kdhastedt on July 02, 2008, 08:43:00 am

Do you really think that's all he'll raise the taxes on?

This guy is THE biggest liberal all of Congress...and that's saying a lot!  (Ted Kennedy is suicidal about this fact!  It almost makes him want to drive his car off a bridge.)...

Where will the money come from to pay the Medical rates for all the illegals and the others that can't/won't work?  You got it - out of YOUR pocket.

Keith
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: hthompson001 on July 02, 2008, 09:08:39 am
Here's what I don't understand- why are Bill Gates and Warren Buffett democrats?  I just don't get it.  They both contributed to Hillary's campaign.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: brujohnson123 on July 02, 2008, 09:57:44 am
They are Democrats because they understand change and reaching out to the lower and middle class. Yes McCain is a war hero but how many years ago was that. No one is being insensitive with him being a POW. :shocked. however I cannot relate to McCain because for starters I was not born during the horrifying times of his capture but what makes him any different from the other POW's that survived! :bs is it because he's a poltician of the state of Arizona. Does that make him and expert of foreign policy. I think it's time for a change and the only way to make change is to have something new someone that can relate to the people here in AMERICA that are frustrated with the war and everything else. we have been playing big brother to everyone else spending money on war for other countries when it's our country that is falling apart. :argue

We have so much money to help rebuild Iraq and Westernize ever country that we step foot in and we are struggling economically and pretty much a country divided. :help I'm not saying that Obama is going to be any better but what I am saying that it's time to start something new. We have lost a lot of jobs to foreign countries during the Bush Administration. :banghead Can anyone even tell me where Dick Chaney is and what he's doing today? :anon. Sadly the same country that we helped protect Saudi Arabi is charging us out the a z z for oil when they really should be giving it to us for free. in my opinion I do not understand why they continue to get rich off of us when they were are the country that needs protection.

Not to sound off subject be we have plenty of oil over here and we can just say the hell with everybody else. :beer. As far as taxes being increased what is George Bush Sr. known for. I remember his presidential speech "if you can not stand the heat then get the hell out of the kitchen." :deal maybe he was preparing us for his son. Because I got out of the kitchen along time ago and started eating out more.(lol).

Now if McCain is goin to follow Bush is tactics I suggest that he pack it up and lets give Obama a chance for us to prove a change. If the change that he proclaims to give doesnt happen we have Four years to wait and elect a new president. I believe the lack of Obama on foreign Policy will allow him to bring on people that are smarter than he is to help him. Why would they hire someone not intelligent in that department? :biggrin

Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: Hoosier4life2005 on July 02, 2008, 10:29:21 am
They are Democrats because they understand change and reaching out to the lower and middle class. Yes McCain is a war hero but how many years ago was that. No one is being insensitive with him being a POW. :shocked. however I cannot relate to McCain because for starters I was not born during the horrifying times of his capture but what makes him any different from the other POW's that survived! :bs is it because he's a poltician of the state of Arizona. Does that make him and expert of foreign policy. I think it's time for a change and the only way to make change is to have something new someone that can relate to the people here in AMERICA that are frustrated with the war and everything else. we have been playing big brother to everyone else spending money on war for other countries when it's our country that is falling apart. :argue

We have so much money to help rebuild Iraq and Westernize ever country that we step foot in and we are struggling economically and pretty much a country divided. :help I'm not saying that Obama is going to be any better but what I am saying that it's time to start something new. We have lost a lot of jobs to foreign countries during the Bush Administration. :banghead Can anyone even tell me where Dick Chaney is and what he's doing today? :anon. Sadly the same country that we helped protect Saudi Arabi is charging us out the a z z for oil when they really should be giving it to us for free. in my opinion I do not understand why they continue to get rich off of us when they were are the country that needs protection.

Not to sound off subject be we have plenty of oil over here and we can just say the hell with everybody else. :beer. As far as taxes being increased what is George Bush Sr. known for. I remember his presidential speech "if you can not stand the heat then get the hell out of the kitchen." :deal maybe he was preparing us for his son. Because I got out of the kitchen along time ago and started eating out more.(lol).

Now if McCain is goin to follow Bush is tactics I suggest that he pack it up and lets give Obama a chance for us to prove a change. If the change that he proclaims to give doesnt happen we have Four years to wait and elect a new president. I believe the lack of Obama on foreign Policy will allow him to bring on people that are smarter than he is to help him. Why would they hire someone not intelligent in that department? :biggrin



You sir, have said EXACTLY how I feel.  I agree 100%.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: propertymanager on July 02, 2008, 10:46:44 am
Change is certainly what you'll get with Osama, however, I'm don't think socialism is going to be good for anyone.  Seems like everywhere else it has been tried, it has failed.   Personally, I'd rather keep our freedom and send all the socialists to Cuba!

Mike
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: brujohnson123 on July 02, 2008, 11:11:15 am
Change is certainly what you'll get with Osama, however, I'm don't think socialism is going to be good for anyone.  Seems like everywhere else it has been tried, it has failed.   Personally, I'd rather keep our freedom and send all the socialists to Cuba!

Mike

prpertymanager Mike,

Does it make you feel good calling Obama, Osama? :banghead How many people have Obama killed rather than him win the Democratic Nominee? See people like you that have a negative opinion about a person perspective before even knowing what they can or cannot do is why we have so many problems today. If you are a Republican than so be it support McCain and kiss the ground that he walks on but at the same time don't degrade a person for being a terrorist.

Who said anything about losing freedom that a shame for you to even type such a blog. Just because Obama is such a Liberal to you now doesn't mean that he will not move to the middle how do you think Bill Clinton won the elections. You have to see things from both sides to be able win over the people. I will say that i'm not Republican or Democrat I look at the person who's running and who I can relate to. In other words study the candidiate and if I feel that candidate can help us then that's who I vote for. Not to start anything I look at Political Parties as a form or racism in which I see no matter who's on the ticket some people are going to vote for the party.  :banghead  they are not looking at the views or the person. Now if the parties were taken off and the person that was running for office was just a name then I could understand your views but if your only justification with him being a socialist and a commnunist then you got it all wrong! but once again this is an opinion of mine from reading your blog!   
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: Hoosier4life2005 on July 02, 2008, 12:07:40 pm
Change is certainly what you'll get with Osama, however, I'm don't think socialism is going to be good for anyone.  Seems like everywhere else it has been tried, it has failed.   Personally, I'd rather keep our freedom and send all the socialists to Cuba!

Mike

prpertymanager Mike,

Does it make you feel good calling Obama, Osama? :banghead How many people have Obama killed rather than him win the Democratic Nominee? See people like you that have a negative opinion about a person perspective before even knowing what they can or cannot do is why we have so many problems today. If you are a Republican than so be it support McCain and kiss the ground that he walks on but at the same time don't degrade a person for being a terrorist.

Who said anything about losing freedom that a shame for you to even type such a blog. Just because Obama is such a Liberal to you now doesn't mean that he will not move to the middle how do you think Bill Clinton won the elections. You have to see things from both sides to be able win over the people. I will say that i'm not Republican or Democrat I look at the person who's running and who I can relate to. In other words study the candidiate and if I feel that candidate can help us then that's who I vote for. Not to start anything I look at Political Parties as a form or racism in which I see no matter who's on the ticket some people are going to vote for the party.  :banghead  they are not looking at the views or the person. Now if the parties were taken off and the person that was running for office was just a name then I could understand your views but if your only justification with him being a socialist and a commnunist then you got it all wrong! but once again this is an opinion of mine from reading your blog!   

Uhh ohh.... Your questioning Mike?  Thats not allowed here, because hes a moderator!!!  :anon

Dont you know that "Osama" is a SOCIALIST, A LIBERAL, A COMMUNIST.  The darling Republicans have produced wonderful results the last 8 years, how dare you vote for a Communist/Liberal/SOCIALIST!!  How dare you not re-elect a Republican, which again, has produced wonderful results!!!
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: brujohnson123 on July 02, 2008, 12:17:00 pm
Lol,

Sorry Mike for disagreeing with your blog! I guess I should have done my due dillengence and take note that you are a moderator :banghead. but at the same time we love our freedom and Freedom of speech I believe is what this site is all about then again why are talking politics when the focus should be on out craft. Anyway no hard feelings sometimes we go off of emotions!  :argue. So here's a drink on me.LOL :beer
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: justin0419 on July 02, 2008, 12:28:20 pm
Once again, his status as a Moderator has absolutely nothing to do with his views or your reason to agree/disagree with him.  A Moderator is here giving out of his/her free time to provide a service to keep these forums informative and keep things under control.  That's it.
If you don't think politics will affect your chosen craft, you need to read some more of the posts about people who are facing licensing and registration fees for each of their rental units because some deadbeat landlords in their area don't take care of their properties.  Some politicians believe in regulating and micro-managing everything.  Others believe the market will take care of itself. 
Then there's taxes...that's a whole other issue too. 
So yes, politics is also related to what we do whether you like it or not.
Agree to disagree or whatever, but it's not because someone is or isn't a Moderator...they're just posting their views.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: Hoosier4life2005 on July 02, 2008, 12:28:54 pm
Lol,

Sorry Mike for disagreeing with your blog! I guess I should have done my due dillengence and take note that you are a moderator :banghead. but at the same time we love our freedom and Freedom of speech I believe is what this site is all about then again why are talking politics when the focus should be on out craft. Anyway no hard feelings sometimes we go off of emotions!  :argue. So here's a drink on me.LOL :beer

I think you made a mistake on who the response was from.  I responded, not Mike.

Also man, stick to your guns.  You talk very addimentley(sp) about how we need to go for Obama, but then you appoligize.

No need to appologize.


By the way, when I said dont disagree with Mike because hes a moderator, I was being sarcastic.  Sarcasm doesnt work well on the internet....
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: brujohnson123 on July 02, 2008, 12:52:01 pm
LOL,

Sarcasim is the way to go well at least it gets people to open up a little and not take things to seriously!  :beer
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: brockovich on July 02, 2008, 07:40:01 pm
I don't like either of these candidates. I'm voting for Bob Barr. He'll never win but at least I can feel good about exercising my right to vote. Obama would be horrible for American business, especially real estate where doubling the capital gains tax could be crippling. McCain is clueless and they all pander relentlessly.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: wallacehobbs on July 03, 2008, 08:34:23 am
I don't like either of these candidates. I'm voting for Bob Barr. He'll never win but at least I can feel good about exercising my right to vote. Obama would be horrible for American business, especially real estate where doubling the capital gains tax could be crippling. McCain is clueless and they all pander relentlessly.

OK, out of the 2 who rose to the top, anyone who is a full time investor has to vote for McCain. It just makes the most sense..

BUT

If no one really likes the 2 who are running, then HOW did we end up with these 2 is my question?  :banghead
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: ko929 on July 14, 2008, 04:02:53 am
Change is certainly what you'll get with Osama, however, I'm don't think socialism is going to be good for anyone.  Seems like everywhere else it has been tried, it has failed.   Personally, I'd rather keep our freedom and send all the socialists to Cuba!

Mike


Im not quite understanding how you are not able to call Barack Hussein Obama by his real name?  I read you blog on your website and was about to purchase a couple of copies of your books(the link in your signature) as gifts for some of my investor associates,  but i have decided against it because of your lack of respect for a fellow american that has earned his chance to represent his country.  Your opinions are yours, and i respect that, but  comparing obama to osama is very distasteful. 
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: propertymanager on July 14, 2008, 06:59:54 am
ko929,

I believe that respect is earned, not bestowed.  Barack Hussein is a socialist and, if elected, will do more to destroy the United States than Osama could ever have hoped to do.  Socialism is the opposite of what entrepreneurs are about.  Entrepreneurs (captialists) believe in allowing the free market to work, not in the government seizing control of everything.  Therefore, I have absolutely no respect for Obama, whose grand plan is to seize profits from big business and entrepreneurs and give it to those that are too lazy to work.

Having said all of that, I strongly do not approve of what the Bush Administration is doing either.   The government should get out of the way of business, not bail it out!  Today is a perfect example of Bush's idiot policy of bailing out anyone and everyone!!!  On Friday, IndyMac Bank Failed and Freddie and Fannie were reported to be on the verge of insolvency.  Today, stock market futures are way up because the idiots in the government are promising a blank check to keep Freddie and Fannie afloat.  Ridiculous!  There is a HUGE price to be paid for all of these bailouts and the tab is getting higher every day.  Payment will be made in the price of a severe recession or depression.  Bailing out all these companies is just making the payment higher and the coming depression much worse.

Mike



Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: brujohnson123 on July 14, 2008, 07:35:30 am
What does respect and change mean to you Propertymanager?
I guess I will attempt to understand where you are coming from until I pass judgement against you. For one Obama is not president yet and lets say for example that McCain wins what make you think that he will be any better than this former administration or even make matters worse? :flush I can understand your concern about the banks turning over to the feds but you have to understand that the banks are the ones crying for  :help not the government stating that they are taking over just because.

The banks especially IndyMac stated that they could not handle the massive number of deposits that were coming in. The FDIC whole purpose is to be able to protect and insure accounts up to $100,000. Then turn around and try to sell it later to a bigger bank. Much like your administratin is doing now on the war on terrorism. Going in trying to westernize Iraq and afghanistan then turn around and leave when they feel like they will be able to up and run their country. Sounds like your administration is calling for the govenrnment. Then again all these job losses and jobs going to foreign countries. Ever since this adminsitration has gone into office we have been suffering depression emotionally, financially and losing our country all together.

Personally I do not think that you should get off calling someone a terrorist before you even seen what Obama can do if he elected into office. If anyone needs to be compare to Osama it should be Bush he has killed more people in the state of Texas than any other govenor of the state and really shows not real remorse for the many of fallen soilders that have died under his administration. :deal These are all facts not a matter of opinions, how many people has Barrak Obama killed?  :shocked

Has Barrack Obama sat down with you personally and told you his plan?

Please help me understand your position
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: hthompson001 on July 14, 2008, 09:29:10 am
Obama has not voted in congress as person who favors the capitalist way of America.  He DOES support socialist programs such as welfare and amnesty which will come out of OUR pockets.   With the unemployment rate going up do you really want to take jobs from Americans and give them to people who broke the law getting here?
Honestly, we don't really have a track record with him because his term as senator he's been promoting his book on Oprah or campaigning for the Presidency.  We have a good record of what he says he will do, but not of what he has done.
And remember- Its Mike's right as an American to freedom of speech.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: propertymanager on July 14, 2008, 07:44:37 pm
Quote
For one Obama is not president yet and lets say for example that McCain wins what make you think that he will be any better than this former administration or even make matters worse?

I will not be voting for either Obama (the socialist) or McCain (the liberal).  Both will be very bad for America.  Likewise, from an economic standpoint, I think President Bush has done a TERRIBLE JOB, although I think he has done a reasonable job on national defense.

Quote
The banks especially IndyMac stated that they could not handle the massive number of deposits that were coming in.

The bank would have been fine if massive numbers of deposits were coming in - it was the massive number of withdrawals that were the problem.  However, regardless, it is not the government's job to keep all large businesses afloat.  That is certainly not capitalism or a good example of a free market.  The FDIC should make good on the deposits up to $100,000 and then shut the business down, leaving the shareholders (owners) with NOTHING!  That kind of example will help bankers in the future to think about who they want to loan money to.  Bailing out incompetent bankers just tells the banks that they can do whatever they like and the taxpayers will pick up the tab when they get in trouble.

Socialism does not work!  That has certainly been shown over and over.  Once it arrives (and it will soon), our country will collapse and we'll be starting over!  That's why I think Obama is so dangerous (and I wouldn't say that McPain will be much better)!

Mike
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: Liquidity on July 14, 2008, 07:55:50 pm
The banks especially IndyMac stated that they could not handle the massive number of deposits that were coming in

yeah Indy mac was seized by the government because business was too good.

Bru do you have any idea what your talking about ???  please go read more about indy mac, fannie and freddie mac situations. they are all over the internet.

Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: wallacehobbs on July 15, 2008, 02:21:13 pm
ko929,

I believe that respect is earned, not bestowed.  Barack Hussein is a socialist and, if elected, will do more to destroy the United States than Osama could ever have hoped to do. 

Socialism is the opposite of what entrepreneurs are about. 

 Entrepreneurs (captialists) believe in allowing the free market to work, not in the government seizing control of everything.  Therefore, I have absolutely no respect for Obama, whose grand plan is to seize profits from big business and entrepreneurs and give it to those that are too lazy to work.


Mike these are some very tough words but from what I can read about President John Macain and Senator Obama you make a very strong point here.  It should be interesting to see who they both select as running mates?

One issue I am having is, how can you trust what you read or what you hear on either of the two?

You just wait until 30 days before the election when your home phone (mine isunlisted) cell phone, e-mail, and home snail mail with be FLOODED with VOTE FOR ME - VOTE FOR ME crap.  :flush

I wish the election was already over so we can move forward on to other things...
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: kdhastedt on July 17, 2008, 08:55:46 am

<<One issue I am having is, how can you trust what you read or what you hear on either of the two?>

That's easy - YOU CAN'T, theyre policiticians. 

Here's one hint -

Q - 'How can you tell when a politician is lying?' 
A - 'His/her lips move'


Keith
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: Bluemoon06 on July 17, 2008, 09:18:10 am

<<One issue I am having is, how can you trust what you read or what you hear on either of the two?>

That's easy - YOU CAN'T, theyre policiticians. 

Here's one hint -

Q - 'How can you tell when a politician is lying?' 
A - 'His/her lips move'


Keith

I agree.  I was watching McCain (not just about him) and  a reporter asked him if he thought it was fair that Medicare covered Viagra but not contraceptives.  He got all wrapped around the axle trying to answer that question.  You and I both know he has an opinion on that.  But he does not want to lose votes because of what comes out of his mouth.  What they say has nothing at all to do with what they think.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: p1nn4cl3 on July 20, 2008, 11:43:06 pm
This has been a very civil conversation considering the topic. I think that deserves a shoutout in itself. :beer

I am considering voting in Barack as President, but with a Republican Congress. Let's face it, the Presidency is not a monarchy. They are just mastheads for their party. They set the agenda, talk to the media, and meet with foreign leaders. I like the idea of a well-spoken idealist in this role.

Congress is where the action happens though, and where the laws are made. I'll vote for any Libertarian running in my State who I think has a shot, but barring that I'll vote Republican. I've heard Barack is good at working across the isle, and maneuvering to get his laws passed. I say let him do just that, and vote out the Democrats who have done nothing so far with their chance in the Congressional seats.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: RDO on July 25, 2008, 08:35:09 pm
Watch this video !!!

http://www.eyeblast.tv/public/video.aspx?RsrcID=2036
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: sunnyskyinvestor on July 26, 2008, 02:14:01 am
RDO -- that is not a fair video. Every person's life can be spun here or there based on video clips, one person they look up to, or their personal family history. If it was G Bush that video could go 13 HOURS!

SO WHAT?

I went to a Catholic school and learned why I didn't want to be Catholic as an adult. Learning about the religion has nothing to do with believing it -- Obama has gone to many lengths to correct that misperception. HE IS A CHRISTIAN -- people find their way to Christianity in their adult lives -- ex. MR. 'BORN AGAIN' BUSH!

Every grandparent in this country would get mad if their grandchild/child came home with person of a different race. They were of a different time. He was a product of that time...HELLO! He doesn't hate his white grandmother and vice versa.

How many Catholics still look up to priests even though the church as been harboring pedophiles for years?  That's far worse than Obama's respect for a man who can't touch the power of the Pope. I don't believe everything my mom believes but I respect her tremendously. I think Obama thinks for himself.

So he's the bad guy for suggesting negotiating with terrorist countries...how do you think these things were prevented in the past? They paid them off to leave people alone! Just b/c it wasn't running in the paper every day with a red terror alert to scare you into hating other countries & their leaders doesn't mean anything. We were just ignorant to it so we'd keep shopping & spending money. We don't usually care about other country's problems until they scare us into hating those people which this administration did.

I'm not saying he's perfect but this kind of video perpetuates hate and ignorance. He's got charisma, smarts, speaks English well, listens and I'd rather him speak for me than McCain or Hillary. I am very proud to see that a black man may lead our country one day. It speaks to our progress as a nation.

And the hand over heart thing -- have you been to hockey game lately??? Most people don't know that is the proper thing to do! Choosing not to do it is not a criminal violation. Some people chose not to revere "idols" or "objects" like statues or flags. So what? I put my hand over my heart but that's my preference.

The fact is that Obama is not that powerful or connected -- as say -- Mr. Bush to dangerous foreign governments. It is a strange coincidence that his name is close to Osama's but so was the fact that we had BUSH, DICK & COLON running the country at one time (no one saw things going down the toilet ahead of time).

If we've SURVIVED 7.5 years with a C student prez, I'm thinking we can handle 4 years of Mr. Obama. 

Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: Lamar on July 26, 2008, 03:19:42 am
Watch this video !!!

http://www.eyeblast.tv/public/video.aspx?RsrcID=2036

Soundbites will never hold up in my book. Anyone who makes theories off of soundbites should walk up to a wall and  :banghead 

Also, Rev Wright was never running for president, so who cares what he thinks or says. I can go to Germany right now and I'd be associated with Bush, just for being American. (And I think the Bush Administration is horrible. lol)

Associations, Soundbites, and the Media are horrible ways of trying to choose the right candidate. That's just my opinion.

Imagine doing a real estate deal with bits and pieces of information. You're asking for trouble.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: ElephantNest on July 26, 2008, 07:43:20 am
LMAO @ those who think the Republican party has gotten us into this recession/mess.

Things were going fine, UNTIL the DEMOCRATS took over Congress.

A vote for Obama, is a vote for Osama. Get a clue. He could CARE LESS about this country, his wife doesn't even LIKE it here. He's just a smooth talking, lying POS who WILL make you PAY ($$$) if he is elected. We will (continue) to pay with our wallets, and I will promise you, many lives will be lost. He has no clue.

Is McCain perfect?? Hell no, but he DOES love this country, and was (is) willing to DIE for it.

I'll say it again:

A VOTE FOR OBAMA IS A VOTE FOR OSAMA.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: propertymanager on July 26, 2008, 07:52:49 am
The real issue in this election is not about soundbites or about the skin color of the next president.  The issue here is that we have one SOCIALIST and one socialist lite running for president.  Obama is a globalist and a socialist and will do GREAT DAMAGE to our capitalist society.  Anyone that actually hopes to be an entrepreneur should understand what that means.  Unfortunately, while McCain would be better, he won't be much better.  He's bought into a lot of the socialist nonsense and will also damage our society.

As for congress, they're generally a bunch of idiots.  Unfortunately, the most incompetent people in this country are the ones that run for congress.  All the bailouts and money being handed out by the nuts in Washington are destroying the country right before our eyes.

The best days of the United States are in the rear view mirror.  I guess that's natural.  Every great society has had only a short time in the spotlight.

Mike
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: allagash on July 26, 2008, 12:10:49 pm
If I had 5 minutes with Warren Buffett, I'd want to ask him why he's for Obama.

-Mike
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: propertymanager on July 26, 2008, 03:34:58 pm
Many of the ultra rich ARE for Barack Hussein Osama Obama.  That's because socialism is all about POWER - the power to control the lives of the average peons.  Look at any socialist regime - all the power is concentrated with the ultra rich.  So, if you're ultra rich - socialism is for you. 

Mike
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: RDO on July 26, 2008, 03:59:06 pm
Bill Cosby on Rev. Wright & Obama

Article from Wall Street Journal:

Rev.Wright epitomizes the thoughts and actions that have prevented and continue to prevent black America from moving ahead and achieving their potential as a people. He suggests that this United States of America made up of sons and daughters of immigrants (I'm talking of the millions of 1st, 2nd, 3rd generation immigrants in this country) of every race, creed, color and religion each and everyone of them who had nothing to do with slavery, some how owe something to a group of people who have never been slaves? Its amazing. It seems everyone is to blame for the shambles black society is in with its violence, drugs, high school drop out rates, misogyny, and a host o f other real and virulent problems, except for the very people who engage in such behavior.

Enough. As a society, culture or people, they should look within themselves and fix their problems.

When did this man become the spokesman for the 'black church'? And of course his church is different, but that doesn't mean his message and philosophy is acceptable, or productive or non-offensive or not-racist or indicative or our greater cultural behaviors, values and norms of Americans.

And yes, the link between this man and Obama really does matter. At a very minimum, it provides insight into the political and philosophical strain that Obama adheres to.


Comment by Bill Cosby
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: RDO on July 27, 2008, 01:33:32 pm

Quote of the week from Sir Charles Barkley:

"Poor People have been voting for Democrats for the last 50 years ... and they are still poor."
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: p1nn4cl3 on July 27, 2008, 02:14:42 pm
Watch this video !!!

http://www.eyeblast.tv/public/video.aspx?RsrcID=2036


Ugh that was awful. Republicans do well with talk radio, but they are apparently light years behind the dems when it comes to the net.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: RDO on July 27, 2008, 03:39:20 pm
Obama flip/flops on Iraq issues... watch youtube video...

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVy5REoiDJo
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: furnishedowner on July 27, 2008, 11:17:41 pm
ElephantNest and Propertymanager:

It is offensive every time that you call the Democratic presidential candidate "Osama", the name of a notorious terrorist and murderer. This demeans you and negates what you are trying to communicate. You can do better than that.

Also, Mike, the ultra-rich HATE Socialism. Under Socialism they are taxed to death. As in England, where manor houses had to be opened for public tours as the rich could no longer pay for them; they were taxed so heavily.

It is the rich who leave many of the "Socialist" countries and emigrate to more entrepreneur-friendly countries like the United States.

Furnishedowner
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: propertymanager on July 28, 2008, 06:06:18 pm
Quote
It is the rich who leave many of the "Socialist" countries and emigrate to more entrepreneur-friendly countries like the United States.

So, if you know that socialists tax the entrepreneurs, "the rich", into oblivion, why are you defending Obama, who is an overt socialist?  Are you planning to give up being an entrepreneur in hopes of getting a socialist handout?

Mike
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: furnishedowner on July 28, 2008, 10:11:13 pm
Mike,
I don't believe Obama is a socialist. I have listened to him a number of times and I think he believes in the American entrepreneurial spirit. I am really not worried about this country going totally socialist.
 
Some socialist programs I would absolutely vote for: socialized medicine for one. It is a scandal when our infant death rate is somewhere around 28th in the world and we are such a rich country. We can afford to have a socialist-type safety net so that the insane, infirm, retarded, and elderly receive needed care. A civilized country takes care of it resources. That includes the health of its populace.

I hope you can visit Europe someday and observe real socialism in action. I have cousins in Denmark and they tell me only 1 spouse can work as the income of the 2nd spouse would go entirely to taxes. So why work? Also, the reliance on the government is much too great and they protest wrongs too little!

Here you can start work with little or no governmental regulation. By that, I mean you can put a sign in front of your house:"Babysitting","Yard Mowing", "Bookkeeper", "Transmissions Fixed", or whatever. You can do none of those things in many European countries without a license, permit, special degree from a trade school, etc.

That is what I love about this country. I can go in and remodel a house, fix a bathroom, whatever I want. In Denmark I MUST hire the certified carpenter, electrician, bricklayer. You can't do it yourself or you will be found out and fined. My cousins are flabbergasted that I have built a business in 4 years and with almost nil governmental regulation and interference.

Relax, Mike. This is still a capitalist country and Obama and McCain are both capitalists. We're gonna be alright.

Furnishedowner
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: propertymanager on July 29, 2008, 07:58:02 am
Quote
I don't believe Obama is a socialist.

I would suggest that you do some research on his policies.  He IS a socialist and so are many in what was formerly the Democratic Party.  He favors socialized medicine; seizing "excess" profits from the oil industry (even though their profit margin is much lower than many other businesses); seizing "excess" profits from big pharma, instituting a cap and trade system that WILL destroy our economy.  Not a socialist - c'mon!

In addition, if you would do just a LITTLE research, you would discover that there are a lot of direct connections between Obama and the DSA (Democratic Socialists of America).  They even endorsed him for his 1996 state senate seat.  Do you remember the recent flap in the media about his campaign workers having a flag of Che Guevara in his campaign office?  The guy could not possibly be a more overt socialist - just look it up!

You talk about how bad socialism is in Europe and how they stifle business, but you also say "I am really not worried about this country going totally socialist."  Are you kidding?  How much socialism is ok with you?  50%?  75%?  Are you ok with the wackos socializing big oil (as Maxine Waters and other "democrats" have suggested), big pharma, our medical system provided they don't socialize YOUR business?  Let me tell you that they could easily decide to socialize the rental business as a first step toward seizing all private property.  All Osama Obama needs is to get a foothold.  Socializing medicine followed by socializing big oil would be a huge first step!

NOTHING is more important to the future of our country than this next election.  This election will be a fundamental decision about how far into socialism were headed.  I would vote for capitalism, but there isn't a candidate running on that platform (except maybe Bob Barr).

Mike
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: p1nn4cl3 on July 29, 2008, 10:46:44 am
Quote
I don't believe Obama is a socialist.

I would suggest that you do some research on his policies.  He IS a socialist and so are many in what was formerly the Democratic Party.  He favors socialized medicine; seizing "excess" profits from the oil industry (even though their profit margin is much lower than many other businesses); seizing "excess" profits from big pharma, instituting a cap and trade system that WILL destroy our economy.  Not a socialist - c'mon!

In addition, if you would do just a LITTLE research, you would discover that there are a lot of direct connections between Obama and the DSA (Democratic Socialists of America).  They even endorsed him for his 1996 state senate seat.  Do you remember the recent flap in the media about his campaign workers having a flag of Che Guevara in his campaign office?  The guy could not possibly be a more overt socialist - just look it up!

You talk about how bad socialism is in Europe and how they stifle business, but you also say "I am really not worried about this country going totally socialist."  Are you kidding?  How much socialism is ok with you?  50%?  75%?  Are you ok with the wackos socializing big oil (as Maxine Waters and other "democrats" have suggested), big pharma, our medical system provided they don't socialize YOUR business?  Let me tell you that they could easily decide to socialize the rental business as a first step toward seizing all private property.  All Osama Obama needs is to get a foothold.  Socializing medicine followed by socializing big oil would be a huge first step!

NOTHING is more important to the future of our country than this next election.  This election will be a fundamental decision about how far into socialism were headed.  I would vote for capitalism, but there isn't a candidate running on that platform (except maybe Bob Barr).

Mike


Sorry Mike, but you are wrong on this. Obama actually breaks away from his party when it comes to the far left Socialists. You need to get news outside of Rush Limbaugh in the afternoon.

He appointed Jason Furman in June to be is Economic Policy Director. That actually ANGERED the leftists as Furman is a Centrist on Economic policy. Yes, they both believe in universal health care, but Furman's path to achieve it is much more likely to combine spending decreases along with tax adjustments. He is not popular with the far-left in favor of complete redistribution. He's also a supporter of privatizing Social Security. How many Socialists do you see supporting that? You can read an article on it here: US News and World Report (http://www.usnews.com/blogs/capital-commerce/2008/06/13/is-obama-a-secret-centrist.html.). That particular article also talks about Obama's chief economic advisor Austan Goolsbee. Goolsbee is actually AGAINST universal health care, which drives the liberals nuts.


To me, Obama sounds like a man confident in having a lot of dissenting opinions around him which is a trait I admire. Obama does want to remove the Bush tax cuts, and raise taxes on higher end investments, but I think it's naive to assume we can get away without this. The Douglas Holtz (McCain economic director) approach to is basically a revamped trickle-down theory. Create jobs by giving tax breaks to small business owners. I love this idea, and we should always be conscious of the effects our policies have on that sector, but I just don't think it's enough. According to the Associated Press (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gMSVWqL3tikhx7L_ompt0hDXO-5AD92792JG1) our deficit is going to be half a trillion dollars by next year? I agree we can't tax people into oblivion to pay for this insane government spending, but neither can we use this trickle down approach for job creation, which simply takes too long and doesn't usually achieve its desired outcome.

Bottom line, all signs point to Obama having a Centrist economic agenda. You've heard the old saying, the way to know a successful negotiation took place is when neither side leaves happy? This is what Obama is doing right now to the far left, and far right.



Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: propertymanager on July 29, 2008, 03:11:33 pm
Did you even read the article you posted.  The author's conclusion was:

"Obama wants to raise taxes on investments, incomes, and corporations. Obama wants government to intervene as never before into the health insurance market. Obama wants to reorganize the U.S. economy around eliminating carbon emissions. Yet that's not enough for Klein?"

That sounds like a socialist to me. 

Don't be fooled by the wackos on the far left.  Obama is half-heartedly faking a centerist agenda (by taking both sides of many issues) so that he can get elected, but he is PURE SOCIALIST.  McCain would be a LITTLE more to the center, but he won't be a lot better.  I choose Option C.

Mike
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: kdhastedt on July 29, 2008, 03:51:54 pm

Obama is making a huge effort to try to sneak to the center rather than be branded for what he is - a far-left fringe lunatic.

Mike is calling it as he sees it (and VERY correctly).  Obama is a Socialist.  Hillary is worse but it is what it is....


Keith
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: hthompson001 on July 30, 2008, 08:09:27 am
Here is an article about Obama's plan to tax those that have done well in life in the name of "SOCIAL" programs

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2007-11-11-obama-social-security_N.htm (http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2007-11-11-obama-social-security_N.htm)

Say it together people....SOCIALISM!!!
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: propertymanager on July 30, 2008, 09:14:54 am
Why can't  :evil say what he really wants - to take ALL our money and redistribute it as he sees fit?  That's the socialist way!

Mike

Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: p1nn4cl3 on July 30, 2008, 01:57:44 pm
Here is an article about Obama's plan to tax those that have done well in life in the name of "SOCIAL" programs

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2007-11-11-obama-social-security_N.htm (http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2007-11-11-obama-social-security_N.htm)

Say it together people....SOCIALISM!!!


C'mon guys. :rolleyes You are just seeing what you want to see now. That article is about the Social Security fund. You know, the one that turns upside down in 2017?  It was not Barack Obama who was stealing the trust money that should have been earning interest. In 1983 Greenspan himself recommended raising taxes to help supplement it. Is Greenspan a Socialist now too?

You see the problem is, it doesn't matter what Barack Obama says or does at this point, a few of you guys have made up your minds. You're not looking at facts or current events, but rather just retaining the information that supports your opinions. Fox News even ran an article showing him to be fairly bi-partisan (http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/06/25/obamas-state-senate-years-show-bipartisan-record/) for a Democrat, and there is a growing number of "Obamacons" (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article4138151.ece) who believe he will make the right choices economically.

By all means go with this guy though: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgF39TRCPPE  :help
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: hthompson001 on July 30, 2008, 02:09:07 pm

By all means go with this guy though: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgF39TRCPPE  :help
[/quote]

You have made the fatal mistake of assuming I'm voting for McCain...which I am NOT! 
Secondly,  why is the government's responsiblity to care for you when you are elderly???  Because you deserve it???
Contribute to a 401k plan or start an IRA and save!!!  Our negative savings rate is a result of the "I deserve it and I want it" attitude, not the "I worked hard for it" attitude.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: allagash on July 30, 2008, 03:38:55 pm
Quote
By all means go with this guy though: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgF39TRCPPE

That was fun.

Can you imagine 4 years of that....yikes!

Quote
The politicians don't run anything.  There are 16 families that control the whole world.  I read that in a book ya'll.  I thought that was just a rumor until Bill Clinton won the election in 1994.  When Clinton was running he said NAFTA was the worst thing we could do and it would bury us and we should stop it.  When he won the election he said we must have NAFTA.  It was like on his first day in the Oval Office somebody came in with “the binder” and told him where we are one the plan and that he had to follow that plan.  Politicians just follow the plan and we go along for the ride. 

Heck....they already starting reviewing the binder with Obama this week:

Quote
Obama met in Washington on Monday with an all-star group of business and economic experts, including billionaire investor Warren Buffett, who participated by telephone, former Federal Reserve Chairman Paul Volcker and Google Chairman Eric Schmidt.

-Mike
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: RolynProperties on August 01, 2008, 10:38:57 am
Quote
By all means go with this guy though: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgF39TRCPPE

LOL!!!
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: phlemboy on August 01, 2008, 11:15:34 am

By all means go with this guy though: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgF39TRCPPE  :help

You have made the fatal mistake of assuming I'm voting for McCain...which I am NOT! 
Secondly,  why is the government's responsiblity to care for you when you are elderly???  Because you deserve it???
Contribute to a 401k plan or start an IRA and save!!!  Our negative savings rate is a result of the "I deserve it and I want it" attitude, not the "I worked hard for it" attitude.
[/quote]
 To be honest, the people who actually deserve SS and/or medicare are the people (babyboomers) who have been paying into it since it began. It was never meant soley for retirement. That was also back in the days where employees had a pension for life after they retired from a company. They didn't have to contribute anything but their hard work. Then they cancelled the pension and and said, "  Hey, here's a smart plan where you contribute the bulk of your retirement savings." The problem with that is instead of a steady pension for life. The responsibility was transferred to people who have no investing savvy. So they're forced to hand their money over to a person who says,"Diversify and invest for the long term." Nobody says anything about what to do if the market crashes and your retirement savings loses a ton of money as you near retirement. When the rules changed, people needed to invest in their financial education so they would'nt have to depend on someone else for investment advice. I believe Warren Buffett said that "Diversification is insurance for ignorance." or something like that. The problem is that people are unaware of this need for education or they're too lazy to get the education they need. One last point to this rant. The SS & Medicare programs were never meant to finance the high cost of healthcare (nursing home, hospital stay etc.) O.K. I'm done for now. :biggrin
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: brockovich on August 01, 2008, 12:36:30 pm
We need less government in our lives, not more. Obama certainly and McCain to extent will continue to expand government. Don't come on here stating you are investor in real estate giddy about the propsect of an Obama presidency. Capital gains tax increases alone should have you running the other way. If you want to make half as much profit after resale that you used to then by all means vote for Obama. But don't call yourself an investor in the same sentence.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: p1nn4cl3 on August 01, 2008, 01:09:26 pm
We need less government in our lives, not more. Obama certainly and McCain to extent will continue to expand government. Don't come on here stating you are investor in real estate giddy about the propsect of an Obama presidency. Capital gains tax increases alone should have you running the other way. If you want to make half as much profit after resale that you used to then by all means vote for Obama. But don't call yourself an investor in the same sentence.

I'm not sure if that reply was to me, but my definition of an investor is someone who invests. It's an action, and really quite separate from a person's ideas on what is correct policy for a society.  By your (implied) definition, a criteria to be an investor is someone who sees political advantage as a means to further their own personal bottom line, and I disagree with that.

However, everything else you said is spot on in my opinion. I voted, campaigned for, and donated to Ron Paul in the primary race, but he lost. So, what do I do? In this race, I pick the guy who I think will screw this country up LEAST, even if I don't support all of his policies. I'll pay attention more to my local politics, and try to get Libertarian minded officials elected in my precinct, county, and state governments. Hopefully if everyone does the same, in 12-15 years we can really challenge the two party system, and be in a position to seize back state control, and limit government the way it was intended.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: phlemboy on August 01, 2008, 01:11:56 pm
Brokovich, If your comment was toward me, than perhaps you should look at my post again. I did'nt mention ANYTHING about Obama,MCain or large govt. For the record, I'm for "none of the above". I just think the people who have ACTUALLY  paid into the SS & Medicare system for their ENTIRE working years may not be able to have access to the very programs the helped fund. Many of these people didn't save in their 401k because it didn't exist until it was too late for them to do anything. Besides, they had a pension.. at least they thought.. The largest point of my post was about taking control of your own financial well being.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: hthompson001 on August 01, 2008, 01:38:59 pm

Electile Dysfunction : the inability to become aroused over any of the choices for President put forth by either party in the 2008 election year.


I couldn't resist    ;D
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: brockovich on August 01, 2008, 01:47:39 pm
My post was not directed at any one individual, just a point in general. I hate these two choices this year and that is why I stated in earlier post in this same string that Bob Barr may get my voe even though he will never win in this corrupt two party system. If McCain were to choose Romney as a running mate I would look again at perhaps granting McCain my vote. We need someone with business credentials to help run this county, not lifetime politicians.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: phlemboy on August 01, 2008, 11:30:24 pm
I agree brokovich. I actually would like to see Donald Trump in the mix. I read his book "The America We Deserve". It's a very good book with some VERY good ideas. Whether these ideas could actually be implemented is beyond my expertise, but I like the fact that he's not beholden to anyone or any political party. An example of one of his ideas is: Keep in mind this book was written in 2000.

He proposes a ONE TIME 14.25% tax on individuals and Trusts with a net worth over $10 Million. He also proposes a repeal of the 55% inheritance tax. This would provide $5.7 Trillion to  pay the entire national debt. It would also save $200 billion in interest payment. That $200 billion could give the middle class a tax break of $100 bilion. The other $1 billion could go into bolstering the Social Security Trust Fund. Paying off the national debt would retire all govt. bonds. People would be able invest in free enterprise in instead of govt. It woul also enable new business startups. His personal tax bill would be $700 million. He goes into some other options as well. He goes into more detail, but there is too much to list. I think what I like most about his ideas is that he at least has the guts to say EXACTLY WHAT he wants to do. WHY he wants to do it and HOW hewant to do it. The politicians I see now are not being specific in their plans. They say things like " I'll work to do this" or "We as American need to strive for that". Just lay out the issues and EXACTLY what your plan is to resolve them. Let the country see the plan have it debated and picked apart so people can have an educated view of what your poicies are. After reading the book, I felt at least that he had an exact plan to resolve the key issues that remain unsolved today. It's hard to pick a plan apart when the current candidates aren't laying specific plans.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: propertymanager on August 02, 2008, 07:03:58 am
I agree that we need a specific plan, but a one time tax of 14.25% on individuals and trusts with a net worth of $10 million dollars would be a DISASTER.  Most high net worth individuals don't have 14.25% of their net worth sitting around in cash.  So, they would need to sell assets to pay the tax bill.  That would drive the stock market down (everybody selling and nobody buying); cost jobs; and do great damage to the economy! 

A tax on net worth would be VERY bad for us real estate investors.   Those of us in the rental property business have a relatively high net worth, but relatively low cash flow.  Coming up with 14.25% one-time in cash, in addition to all the property taxes we pay, would be highway robbery!  Yes, we need a plan, but not THIS plan. 

Mike
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: p1nn4cl3 on August 02, 2008, 09:10:51 am
Whoops, sorry Phlemboy. I missed your post right above Mike's.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: phlemboy on August 02, 2008, 11:23:06 am
I posted it. It was an idea Donald Trump had 8 yrs. ago in his book "The America We Deserve". I see a couple of things with that. One is that many "high net worth people" don't actually own much in their name. Second, the people who are on the cusp of that net worth may hold off or reduce in order to fall under that level until the tax goes by.

Propertymanager- My question is this. How can you have a high net worth if your cashflow is relatively low? Isn't cashflow  low when your debt is high? If your debt is relatively high, your net worth is relatively low correct?  If you have a lot of equity, you have high net worth also. Perhaps instead of selling you can tap the equity to pay the bill. It would reduce the cashflow but it would not come from directly from pocket all at once. A net worth of $10M is beyond my comprehension at this point. But a one time 14.25% tax would cost $142,500 at the $10M point. If I were to have to pay that bill, you'd have to SHOW me that I could benefit from it. Perhaps there could be some future tax incentives to make it worth it. I also realize the if the govt. is going to ask for more money from ANYONE, they need to show they're not wasting money FIRST. Is there ANY OTHER  way to eliminate the national debt ALL AT ONCE? How does the national debt effect REI? Wouldn't repealing the inheritance tax be an incentive? Or is there something else the "high net worth" people are doing anyway to combat the inheritance tax. Trump also has some other tax ideas that he talks about. However, I like the fact that he put the plan out there for it to be debated, picked apart, perhaps even reworked to move towrd a solution. At least he had a plan. I don't think the candidates have an actual plan. I believe their plan is go with the American people in general want to hear. I think if they actually told Americans the truth, they'd never get elected for ANYTHING. Well looking back my post it looks like I had more than one question. Oh well, I think this is a good topic and I'm anxious to see what I can learn.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: justin0419 on August 02, 2008, 11:52:15 am
Missed a zero there.  It's $1,425,000 for 14.25% at the $10MM point.
 
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: phlemboy on August 02, 2008, 12:25:01 pm
LOL! I guess I should scrap my dreams of being an accountant! :shocked. That's a lot of money. I guess to put it in perspective, that's like asking someone with a net worth off 100K to cough up $14,250. But before you ask ANYONE to give any more than they already are, you HAVE to show that you've eliminated wasting money. Perhaps if the govt. didn't waste so much money (pick a category..any category) they would need as much. In addition, you have to show them how they can pofit from their investment ( which is basically what it would be).
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: justin0419 on August 02, 2008, 01:02:54 pm
I don't have first hand experience with other areas of the govt, but I wish I could do something about how the military spends its money.  We have a system set up where people spend money because if they don't spend it, they won't get as much next year.  Govt contracts for products are more overpriced than what you could go buy it for out in town.  Add this to the crap you hear about Congress wasting money and you have a ton of money that could be saved if someone would change the system.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: phlemboy on August 02, 2008, 01:10:31 pm
If this country was run like a  SUCCESSFUL BUSINESS, you wouldn't have that waste. You'd also have better use of capital ( taxes).
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: propertymanager on August 02, 2008, 05:35:56 pm
Quote
Propertymanager- My question is this. How can you have a high net worth if your cashflow is relatively low? Isn't cashflow  low when your debt is high? If your debt is relatively high, your net worth is relatively low correct?


No.   The amount of wealth you have in the rental property business is a function of several things:

1. equity at closing (discount)
2. appreciation over time
3. paydown of principal over time
4. number of rental units

Let's take a relatively modest rental property business with 50 rentals.  Let's say that the average equity per rental is $20,000 (by purchasing at a discount).  Let's also assume no other equity.  So, your net worth in this instance would be $1,000,000.

Now, let's assume that you received $100 per unit per month cash flow.  That means your cash flow is $5,000 per month.

There we have it - $1,000,000 net worth and only $5,000 per month cash flow.  In my opinion, $5,000 isn't a lot of money each month to live on and it would be very difficult to save $142,500 to pay that 14.25% one time tax bill.  In fact, it would be nearly impossible to save that $142,500 in any relatively short period of time!   Could you sell some of the properties or refinance some of the properties to get the money?  Yes, but doing so would significantly reduce your cash flow, which was only $5,000 per month to start with. 

Multiply all these numbers by 10 and you see why it would also be difficult for someone with a $10,000,000 net worth to come up with $1,450,000 for a one time tax payment.

The only plan that makes sense is to allow the economy to completely collapse and then we'll start over.  I think we're past the point of no return in this country.

Mike
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: p1nn4cl3 on August 02, 2008, 10:26:37 pm

The only plan that makes sense is to allow the economy to completely collapse and then we'll start over.  I think we're past the point of no return in this country.

Mike


You know Mike, I disagree with you on Obama vs. McCain but agree with you on pretty much everything else. I hope this isn't the case though, and that we can get it turned around.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: mfouts on August 04, 2008, 08:27:49 am
They both suck.. We are screwed either way, but in my 10 years experience in real estate, its always been the republicans that have help all of my business out.!!

SOOOO, I guess Mccain
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: wallacehobbs on August 06, 2008, 01:39:54 pm
They both suck.. We are screwed either way, but in my 10 years experience in real estate, its always been the republicans that have help all of my business out.!!

SOOOO, I guess Mccain

Ok, if this is the way a lot of Americans feel how did we end
up with Mcain and Obama as the only 2 choices?
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: justin0419 on August 06, 2008, 02:01:06 pm
They both suck.. We are screwed either way, but in my 10 years experience in real estate, its always been the republicans that have help all of my business out.!!

SOOOO, I guess Mccain

Ok, if this is the way a lot of Americans feel how did we end
up with Mcain and Obama as the only 2 choices?


I wouldn't say that's how most Americans feel since the majority of Americans are slaves to their jobs and don't own businesses.  Hillary has such a polar division in her own party for her popularity or lack thereof.  Obama seems to be a good orator and has been able to get people behind his "change change change" campaign.  Considering our current state of affairs in this country, it's easy to see how many Americans just want a change.  I think some people were worried about having an Evangelical Christian in the White House again so that probably didn't do Huckabee any favors.  I also think Romney came off as slightly arrogant and may have affected his chances as well.  So we have McCain and Obama (and maybe Ralph Nader too).  I'm not saying my views are right, but this is just how I see how we got to where we are in the race.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: kdhastedt on August 06, 2008, 02:58:38 pm
They both suck.. We are screwed either way, but in my 10 years experience in real estate, its always been the republicans that have help all of my business out.!!

SOOOO, I guess Mccain

Ok, if this is the way a lot of Americans feel how did we end
up with Mcain and Obama as the only 2 choices?


Obama seems to be a good orator and has been able to get people behind his "change change change" campaign. 

He is?  Have you ever heard him speak without a Tele-Prompter?  The  guy can be a babbling idiot.

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/07/barack_obama_amman_mispeak.html

He and Hill-yuri are both Socialists (and not in a good way) - and, trust me, she is NOT dead yet.  She will try for the party's nomination later this month in Denver - mark my words.

Keith
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: phlemboy on August 06, 2008, 03:20:47 pm
I honestly think the majority of Americans are looking for a savior. Not the truth. If a candidate actually came up and told them the truth about the state of our economy/nation in general and also told Americans that THEY are responsible for their own lives and should save themselves, that's as far as their campaign would go. I hear people saying the same phrase "The govt. sould do something about this". They don't look at themselves and say "What can I do to change my situation?" I'd just like to govt. to stop wasting money so they don't have to keep dipping our pocket or take on more foriegn debt when they run out.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: Hoosier4life2005 on August 06, 2008, 03:33:06 pm
I honestly think the majority of Americans are looking for a savior. Not the truth. If a candidate actually came up and told them the truth about the state of our economy/nation in general and also told Americans that THEY are responsible for their own lives and should save themselves, that's as far as their campaign would go. I hear people saying the same phrase "The govt. sould do something about this". They don't look at themselves and say "What can I do to change my situation?" I'd just like to govt. to stop wasting money so they don't have to keep dipping our pocket or take on more foriegn debt when they run out.

Ron Paul!
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: b18bgone on August 07, 2008, 02:11:54 am
People are scared to death of the truth, if either of these candidates were to
talk about what it would REALLY take to get our country on track, and the time
it would take and how much things would suck.  You would have Opra as a
write in nomination victor, people want to be lied to. 

Case in point, not picking on just one guy but Obama was at a rally and said he
would tax big oil for making obseen profits, and take that money and give it to
the tax payers as some sourt of rebate.....the audiance went nuts, they loved it.

Are we to stupid to realize that if we were to tax the oil companies, extra taxes
to think that they wouldnt raise oil prices and that would negate any tax rebate
you might see. 

Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: kdhastedt on August 07, 2008, 08:13:06 am
They both suck.. We are screwed either way, but in my 10 years experience in real estate, its always been the republicans that have help all of my business out.!!

SOOOO, I guess Mccain

Ok, if this is the way a lot of Americans feel how did we end
up with Mcain and Obama as the only 2 choices?


Obama seems to be a good orator and has been able to get people behind his "change change change" campaign. 

He is?  Have you ever heard him speak without a Tele-Prompter?  The  guy can be a babbling idiot.

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/07/barack_obama_amman_mispeak.html

He and Hill-yuri are both Socialists (and not in a good way) - and, trust me, she is NOT dead yet.  She will try for the party's nomination later this month in Denver - mark my words.

Keith

See?  Told ya!

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=5528104&page=1


Keith
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: phlemboy on August 07, 2008, 04:08:46 pm
Democrats tax & spend. Republicans borrow & spend. If this country were a business, it would fail. There is SO much waste in govt. spending, its crazy!
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: kdhastedt on August 13, 2008, 10:57:45 am
As many of you know, near Fredericksburg, Texas, there is a large German-speaking population.  A farmer walking down a country road notices a man drinking from his pond, with his hand.

The Amish man shouts, "Trink das wasser nicht.  Die kuhen haben dahin gesheissen", which  means: 'Don't drink the water, the cows have [crapped] in it'.
 
The man  shouts back, "I'm from New York and just down here campaigning for Obama, I can't understand you. Please speak in English".
 
The Amish man says: "Use two hands, you'll get more".


(Lighten up, it's a joke!  I just got it in first before it was a 'McCain joke')
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: wallacehobbs on August 14, 2008, 01:00:58 pm
Vice President Who?   :anon

Who will President John Mcain select as a running mate?

Who will Senator Obama pick to run with him, Hillary?

Thoughs on this?   :terminator
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: MikeInCali on August 14, 2008, 04:32:24 pm
As many of you know, near Fredericksburg, Texas, there is a large German-speaking population.  A farmer walking down a country road notices a man drinking from his pond, with his hand.

The Amish man shouts, "Trink das wasser nicht.  Die kuhen haben dahin gesheissen", which  means: 'Don't drink the water, the cows have [crapped] in it'.
 
The man  shouts back, "I'm from New York and just down here campaigning for Obama, I can't understand you. Please speak in English".
 
The Amish man says: "Use two hands, you'll get more".


(Lighten up, it's a joke!  I just got it in first before it was a 'McCain joke')

Haha a good one.  But if it was a McCain joke a conservative would more likely say, "Learn english old man or go back to France where you came from!
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: johna1 on August 16, 2008, 05:06:03 pm

One of the reasons I don't like to engage in political discussion is because of people like Mike.  He is acting out of passion and hatred for Obama and is speaking straight from the Republican discredited talking points.  He is even referring to Obama as Osama without realizing that Obama is not even a muslim name but West African and Barak is a hebrew name.  Al Queda was Sadam's biggest enemy because they hated the secular Sadam.  In fact, they came into Iraq after the fool we elected as president invaded Iraq after duping people like Mike.  He did not manage to dupe 99% of the remainder of the world, thank God.  Al Queda's only mission in Iraq is to drive the infidels out and they will again retreat once the US pulls out.  Even the Iraqis recognize that.  Al Sadr has already declared he will lay down arms when the US puts a timetable in place (he is not Al Queda because he is Shiite).  As for Israel, one of the few people that can bring peace to the middle east is Obama because he is viewed an an honest broker.  He will be the best thing for Israel and is probably the only American leader that can bring peace between Israel and the Palestinians.

The world loves Obama for a reason and it's because they hate Bush and his policies.  Take a cue.

Mike, I know your type.  I see them all over the internet spreading smears and hate.  Take what Mike says with a grain of salt.   He is not being rational.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: johna1 on August 16, 2008, 05:12:35 pm
Mike,

One more thing.  Are you the christian you say you are?  I've always loved reading your post but I am so so disappointed in your.  To think that you claim to be a man of God but could spew so much hatred for someone you do not know and obviously not familiar with his positions, is sad indeed.  Check out fightthesmears.org and barackobama.com.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: johna1 on August 16, 2008, 05:28:43 pm

Quote of the week from Sir Charles Barkley:

"Poor People have been voting for Democrats for the last 50 years ... and they are still poor."

Quite the contrary.  Read what's the matter with Kansas.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: johna1 on August 16, 2008, 05:33:44 pm
Mike,
I don't believe Obama is a socialist. I have listened to him a number of times and I think he believes in the American entrepreneurial spirit. I am really not worried about this country going totally socialist.
 
Some socialist programs I would absolutely vote for: socialized medicine for one. It is a scandal when our infant death rate is somewhere around 28th in the world and we are such a rich country. We can afford to have a socialist-type safety net so that the insane, infirm, retarded, and elderly receive needed care. A civilized country takes care of it resources. That includes the health of its populace.

I hope you can visit Europe someday and observe real socialism in action. I have cousins in Denmark and they tell me only 1 spouse can work as the income of the 2nd spouse would go entirely to taxes. So why work? Also, the reliance on the government is much too great and they protest wrongs too little!

Here you can start work with little or no governmental regulation. By that, I mean you can put a sign in front of your house:"Babysitting","Yard Mowing", "Bookkeeper", "Transmissions Fixed", or whatever. You can do none of those things in many European countries without a license, permit, special degree from a trade school, etc.

That is what I love about this country. I can go in and remodel a house, fix a bathroom, whatever I want. In Denmark I MUST hire the certified carpenter, electrician, bricklayer. You can't do it yourself or you will be found out and fined. My cousins are flabbergasted that I have built a business in 4 years and with almost nil governmental regulation and interference.

Relax, Mike. This is still a capitalist country and Obama and McCain are both capitalists. We're gonna be alright.

Furnishedowner

Nice post.  The fact is no one President could not change our deeply entrenched captilalistic system and those that say the contrary are just plain old paranoid.  In Mike's case, I suspect he is using it to mask his deep animosity and discomfort toward Obama as a candidate period.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: propertymanager on August 16, 2008, 09:02:55 pm
Quote
Why do you have to bring politics into this forum.

Politics has no place here.


Quite the contrary, there is no single thing that is more pertinent to real estate investors than the next election.  We are at a critical point in our society - the point at which we decide whether we want to have freedom and capitalism or whether we want to have socialism and government control of every aspect of our lives (it takes a village to raise a child).  NAME ANYTHING THAT IS MORE PERTINENT TO REAL ESTATE INVESTORS THAN THAT!

Quote
One of the reasons I don't like to engage in political discussion is because of people like Mike.  He is acting out of passion and hatred for Obama and is speaking straight from the Republican discredited talking points.

First of all, I am not a Republican.  In fact, if we wanted to be completely accurate, I am registered as a Democrat, since I voted for Billary in the primary.  However, in reality, I certainly don't believe in either the Democrat or Republican agendas - I am a conservative.  I don't take anything I say from any talking points, I simply say what I believe.  If you carefully read my posts, you would see that I am very much against much of what the republicans have done - especially the new Medicare Drug Entitlement and the wild spending of President Bush and his administration.

However, I do have a particular dislike for Obama.  He is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS because he is a socialist and wants to implement socialism in the United States.  As an entrepreneur, there could be no greater threat to my business and my freedom.  That's why I call him Osama in my posts - because he WILL do more damage to the United States than 100 Osama Bin Ladens could ever do.  Osama tried to destroy this country with 4 airplanes.  Obama will destroy the very fabric of our country from within.

Mike


Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: johna1 on August 16, 2008, 09:38:13 pm
Mike,

You've just inadvertently revealed to the entire forum that you are motivated by pure unadulterated hate for Obama and is clearly masking the real reasons you don't like him.  Your admitting to voting for Hillary who hold the identical positions to Obama reveals your very core.  By her record, the right wing nuts can easily label her as a flaming liberal but yet you admit to voting to perpetuate the same policies you so hate Obama for.  Methinks you have a hidden agenda.  That's my last post on the subject because  the direction of this subject stinks to high heavens.  I second shutting down this thread.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: propertymanager on August 16, 2008, 10:04:20 pm
Quote
I second shutting down this thread.

When did we become such a politically correct society that the free exchange of ideas can't occur?

Quote
You've just inadvertently revealed to the entire forum that you are motivated by pure unadulterated hate for Obama and is clearly masking the real reasons you don't like him.


I certainly do not hate Obama and I clearly stated the reason that I think he would make a terrible President - because he is a socialist.

Quote
Your admitting to voting for Hillary who hold the identical positions to Obama reveals your very core.  By her record, the right wing nuts can easily label her as a flaming liberal but yet you admit to voting to perpetuate the same policies you so hate Obama for.  Methinks you have a hidden agenda.

"Youthinks" wrong.  I voted for Hillary because the Republicans don't have anything to offer and Hillary (like Bill) isn't an idealist.  Obama really believes in socialism.  Hillary doesn't believe in anything - except being president.  She would like to be very liberal, but I believe that she would govern as Bill did - by focus group.  In my opinion, she is infinitely better than Obama and I have a hard time voting for a Republican who isn't a conservative.  Don't get me wrong, I don't want Hillary or McCain to be president, but either of them is better than an overt socialist.

Mike


Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: johna1 on August 16, 2008, 10:26:32 pm
You are either misguided or misrepresenting the truth.  The fact is indisputably.  Obama and Hillary are both liberal Democrats who hold identical policy positions.  In fact, Hillary is more liberal because she wants socialized medicine/mandated premiums and Obama doesn't.  Obama has moved to the center on many issues just like Hillary would have done but of course he is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't because he can't catch a break from guys like you.  Calling him Osama is highly offensive to a man that have dedicated his entire life to the others.  I don't care how you want to parse your words and make up justifications on the fly to hide your real purpose.  You haven't fooled the people on here who can think for themselves.  It's these rabid people like you that have turned me from a Republican to an independent.  I can't stand the hate and hypocrisy that the Republican party has come to represent.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: PositiveOutlook on August 16, 2008, 11:20:51 pm
"came into Iraq after the fool we elected as president invaded Iraq after duping people like Mike." - you mean the President of the US MADE-UP the intelligence that not only the rest of the world had and thought was accurate, but the previous Democratic administration used as justification for bombing Iraq? The same intelligence that the politicians had access to BEFORE granting him the power to act, along with how many security resolutions.  You are indicting an entire world full of people when you say Bush "duped" Mike, including politicians, media, etc. .


"I can't stand the hate and hypocrisy that the Republican party has come to represent." - Talk about swallowing a party line (democrat - you might as well switch parties at this point).  John, while I am an independent, the Democrats are the kings of hypocrisy and hate.  That being said, I love how people who have a different view of things are labeled as people who "hate" - how very open-minded...   :rolleyes

This is the reason nothing gets done. It's not "let's present our ideas and viewpoints and let the people decide which they would like to follow", no, instead we are distracted by the dance BOTH political parties put on.... it's, you're a hypocrite, you're a liar, you're a homophobe, you wanna' destroy the environment (Even thought 20years ago, Ted Danson declared that it would be destroyed in 10 years.... again, ignorance, Al Gore is just another version in political clothing) you "hate" people because I disagree with what you say on any particular subject.

If our children talked or conducted themselves in such ways, they would be rightfully chastised.

Look at how one-sided the mass-media (who use OUR public airwaves) is.... it might explain why you are buying this stuff hook-line-and-sinker, down to the talking point...  Think past party affiliation and think country-affiliation...
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: propertymanager on August 17, 2008, 06:11:21 am
Quote
You are either misguided or misrepresenting the truth.  The fact is indisputably.  Obama and Hillary are both liberal Democrats who hold identical policy positions.  In fact, Hillary is more liberal because she wants socialized medicine/mandated premiums and Obama doesn't.  Obama has moved to the center on many issues just like Hillary would have done but of course he is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't because he can't catch a break from guys like you.

So, if you think that both Hillary and Obama are both equally socialist in their plans (I don't), why would you support them if you're in the REI business.  Barack has announced that he will tax the rich; take profits from those evil businesses that are too profitable (he gets to decide what is too profitable); and pass a cap and trade system that will destroy our country?  Why would someone in business support that?

Mike
 
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: brockovich on August 17, 2008, 08:02:32 am
Our political system is a mess right now. And it is truly scary how naive(johna1) some of the voting public is. Go to dailykos where you will feel more at home.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: hthompson001 on August 20, 2008, 02:24:28 pm
Nice post.  The fact is no one President could not change our deeply entrenched captilalistic system and those that say the contrary are just plain old paranoid.  In Mike's case, I suspect he is using it to mask his deep animosity and discomfort toward Obama as a candidate period.

The names Fidel Castro, Adolph Hilter and Stalin come to mind....they were only one person who brainwashed their country into giving up its rights.  I'm not saying that Obama is this person; but there is proof that he has deeply studied Marxism.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: wallacehobbs on August 20, 2008, 04:47:29 pm
Paris Hilton and whats here name commercial?   :anon

What do you think of the new commercial saying Obama
is just famous for being famous?

Will this hurt or help John McCain do you think?   :huh
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: propertymanager on August 20, 2008, 06:51:23 pm
Quote
In 2000 there was a surplus in the budget, now we are trillions in DEFICIT.
We did not have so many people filing Bankruptcy and losing their homes or is it that the more people that lose homes make us happy.

In my industry there were not as many people being laid off and could not pay their bills. Our company' income has fallen severely and we have had to lay off staff  - like 1000's of other businesses. We are in a depression and I do not do not like it. What do you expect. Who will take us further into the depression Obama or McCain?

I agree 100%.  It is an absolute disgrace what politicians (including President Bush) have done to this country.  Our country is already bankrupt, but we continue to add new entitlements (like the new medicare prescription drug benefit) and we continue to bail out big businesses, banks, and quasi-government entities (like Freddie and Fannie).  Never mind that the government doesn't have the money for these entitlements and bailouts - they just print money out of thin air and borrow money from our enemies.  Worse yet, instead of drilling for our own oil, we send 700 billion dollars per year to our enemies who provide us with our oil (and have the ability to hold us hostage with it).  Finally, regardless of who becomes the next president, both Obama and McCain have pledged to enact a cap and trade system, which will increase the cost of gasoline $2 per gallon.  This in a vain attempt to curb global warming, which even the scientists claim ended 10 years ago and while at the same time China is pumping out so much pollution that even the Olympics have been affected. 

We're not in a depression yet, but we will be!

Mike


Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: PositiveOutlook on August 20, 2008, 11:14:43 pm
National DEBT = 9.5 Trillion

Projected 2008 DEFICIT = 410 Billion


Our deficit is an annual amount that we have OVERSPENT, and our National Debt is the accumulation of these deficits.  Our deficit is not in the trillions (though give them time), our national debt is...

The absolute sick thing about this is that we paid over 400 BILLION this last year alone in interest payments on the National Debt, the THIRD largest expense for the federal goverment.

Everytime we cut the tax RATE, revenue increases to the goverment... the problem is THE CONGRESS (the President cannot spend a dime without Congress' approval) SPENDS ALL OF THE INCREASE AND THEN SPEND SOME MORE ON TOP OF THIS...  When will we learn to elect politicians who do not do this...

What makes me crazy is when people are LITERALLY scammed into thinking that if we tax companies (I.e. - the latest "windfall profit tax"), it will help them.  People actually think they get the money, but don't realize that the increased taxes to a company are PASSED BACK TO THEM IN PRICE INCREASES, and then to add insult to injury, the "windfall taxes" that would be collected would not applied to the national debt, but again spent, and more borrowed to cover it. 

Guess who gets to pay for all this.... YOU!

YOU, the people... pay the increased costs PASSED BACK TO YOU by the company/industry being taxed!

YOU, the people... pay the costs to ADMINISTER this tax!

YOU, the people... pay the interest on the national debt that will go up

So, you get socked royally all in the name of "fairness" and the illusion...

People should REVOLT at the fact that we have spend 2.5 TRILLION dollars (more than the total federal income of 2.4 TRILLION for 2007) from 2000-2007.  The equivalent of a whole years operating budget for the federal goverment GONE in seven years JUST TO PAY THE INTEREST and NOTHING TOWARDS THE PRINCIPAL!  Talk about a Ponzi scheme!

In the meantime, the Congress, whose members get a six-figure paycheck, staff, pensions, basically FREE healthcare, etc. feels no shame or sense of obligation in TAKING a 5-week vacation while leaving the people in the lurch to deal with the problems CREATED BY THEM!

UNBELIEVABLE how gullible and easily distracted people are...  while I disagree that we are in a "depression" or going to be there anytime soon, I do agree that a time will come when we will have to pay the piper...
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama? THIS IS A MUST READ!
Post by: JaySloan on August 22, 2008, 03:11:48 pm
Obama is not the guy for the job!  Aside from him proposing to raise capital gains from 15% to over 35% which is not good for my business, he supports the moral deterioration of society with his rediculous views.

p.s. Burning the American flag is NOT a freedom of speech issue!



This email is full of hard, cold, true facts and comes in three parts:
Part 1
 Just two years ago, remember the election in 2006?
 Thought you might like to read the following:
 

 
In just two short years:
1) Consumer confidence stood at a 2 1/2 year high;
2) Regular gasoline sold for $2.19 a gallon;
3) The unemployment rate was 4.5%.

 
Since voting in a Democratic Congress in 2006 we have seen:

 
1) Consumer confidence plummet;
2) The cost of regular gasoline soar to over $3.50 a gallon;
3) Unemployment is up to 5% (a 10% increase);
4) American households have seen $2.3 trillion in equity value evaporate (stock and mutual fund losses);
5) Americans have seen their home equity drop by $1.2 trillion dollars;
6) 1% of American homes are in foreclosure.

 
America voted for change in 2006, and we got it!

 
Remember it's Congress that makes law not the President. He has to work with what's handed to him.
Part 2:
Taxes... Whether Democrat or a Republican you will find these statistics enlightening and amazing.

 Www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/151.HTML

Taxes under Clinton 1999                              Taxes under Bush 2008
Single making 30K - tax $8,400         Single making 30K - tax $4,500
Single making 50K - tax $14,000       Single making 50K - tax 12,500
Single making 75K - tax $23,250       Single making 75K - tax 18,750
Married making 60K - tax $16,800    Married making 60K- tax 9,000
Married making 75K - tax $21,000    Married making 75K - tax $18,750
Married mking 125K - tax $38,750   Married making 125K - tax $31,250

Both democratic candidates will return to the higher tax rates
It is amazing how many people that fall into the categories above think Bush is screwing them and Bill Clinton was the greatest President ever. If Obama or Hillary are elected, they both say they will repeal the Bush tax cuts and a good portion of the people that fall into the categories above can't wait for it to happen. This is like the movie The Sting with Paul Newman<you scam somebody out of some money and they don't even know what happened.


 
PART 3:
You think the war in Iraq is costing us too much? Read this:
Boy am I confused.  I have been hammered with the propaganda that it is the Iraq war and the war on terror that is bankrupting us.
I now find that to be RIDICULOUS.
I hope the following 14 reasons are forwarded over and over again until they are read so many times that the reader gets sick of reading them.  I have included the URL's for verification of all the following facts.


1.      $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year by state governments.     Verify at: http://tinyurl.com/zob77
2.      $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.     Verify at: http://www.cis..org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
3.      $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.     Verify at: http://www.cis..org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
4.     $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!     Verify at:  http://transcripts.CNN.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0html
5.      $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.     Verify at http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
6.  $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.     Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
7.  30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.     Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
8.  $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American taxpayers.   Verify at: http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html
9.  $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens.    Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
10.  The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens.  In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US     < STRONG>Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html
11.  During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries.  Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border.     Verify at: Homeland Security Report:  http://tinyurl.com/t9sht
12.  The National Policy Institute, 'estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of  between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period.'     Verify at:  http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf
13.  In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin.     Verify at: http://w wwre nse.com/general75/niht.htm
14.  'The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States '     Verify at: http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml


The total cost is a whopping $ 338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR. 
Are we THAT stupid?


Jay Sloan

The example in investment real estate brokerage
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: MikeInCali on August 22, 2008, 06:00:54 pm
The names Fidel Castro, Adolph Hilter and Stalin come to mind....they were only one person who brainwashed their country into giving up its rights.  I'm not saying that Obama is this person; but there is proof that he has deeply studied Marxism.

Yes, Obama is a marxist, communist, socialist, islamic elitist bent on taking over the world in a SPECTRE or possibly Dr. Evil style.  He may also be part Martian and possibly a terminator sent by our future enemies. 
But at least he studied something, unlike our current president.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: propertymanager on August 23, 2008, 09:07:03 am
Quote
Yes, Obama is a marxist, communist, socialist, islamic elitist bent on taking over the world ...

I agree!

Mike
Title: Dr. Jack Wheeler Regarding Obama
Post by: RDO on August 25, 2008, 05:34:34 pm
This puts a whole new slant on the O-man, deeper understanding to say the least!

Jack Wheeler is a brilliant man who was the author of Reagan's strategy to break the back of the Soviet Union with the star wars race and expose their inner weakness. For years he wrote a weekly intelligence update that was extremely interesting and well structured and informed. He consults(ed) with several mega corporations on global trends and the future, etc. I think he is in semi-retirement now. He is a true patriot with a no-nonsense approach to everything. He is also a somewhat well known mountain climber and adventurer.

Subject: Dr. Jack Wheeler Regarding Obama

Written by Dr. Jack Wheeler

The O-man, Barack Hussein Obama, is an eloquently tailored empty suit. No resume, no accomplishments, no experience, no original ideas, no understanding of how the economy works, no understanding of how the world works, no balls, nothing but abstract empty rhetoric devoid of real substance.

He has no real identity. He is half-white, which he rejects. The rest of him is mostly Arab, which he hides but is disclosed by his non-African Arabic surname and his Arabic first and middle names as a way to triply proclaim his Arabic parentage to people in Kenya . Only a small part of him is African Black from his Luo grandmother, which he pretends he is exclusively.

What he isn't, not a genetic drop of, is 'African-American,' the descendant of enslaved Africans brought to America chained in slave ships. He hasn't a single ancestor who was a slave. Instead, his Arab ancestors were slave owners. Slave-trading was the main Arab business in East Africa for centuries until the British ended it.

Let that sink in: Obama is not the descendant of slaves, he is the descendant of slave owners. Thus he makes the perfect Liberal Messiah.

It's something Hillary doesn't understand - how some complete neophyte came out of the blue and stole the Dem nomination from her. Obamamania is beyond politics and reason. It is a true religious cult, whose adherents rej ect Christianity yet still believe in Original Sin, transferring it from the evil of being human to the evil of being white.

Thus Obama has become the 'white liberals' Christ, offering absolution from the Sin of Being White. There is no reason or logic behind it, no faults or flaws of his can diminish it, no arguments Hillary could make of any kind can be e ffective against it. The absurdity of Hypocrisy Clothed In Human Flesh being their Savior is all the more cause for liberals to worship him: Credo quia absurdum, I believe it because it is absurd.

Thank heavens that the voting majority of Americans remain Christian and are in no desperate need of a phony savior.

His candidacy is ridiculous and should not be taken seriously by any thinking American.
Title: Re: Dr. Jack Wheeler Regarding Obama
Post by: MikeInCali on August 25, 2008, 06:40:22 pm
Jack Wheeler is a brilliant man

Below are a few links to and about another article your genius wrote.  In this one he writes how McCain collaborated with the commies during his POW days.  Apparently his time in isolation was actually isolation with prostitutes!  :beer No wonder he refused early release! 

But wait just maybe its not true.  But hey if something supports your politics definately spread it around like truth.  Just like that debunked letter from a soldier in Afgahnistan who said Obama treated the soldiers poorly.  Everyone emailed that around.  I even saw it printed in the newspaper. 

This guy may have come up with a good strategy against the Soviets 25 yrs ago, but I think presently he's a crackpot.

http://dickmcdonald.blogspot.com/2008_02_01_archive.html#8179713279047273288

http://bamapachyderm.com/archives/2008/02/04/conservative-jack-wheeler-is-a-lying-dishonorable-hack/

http://www.modernconservative.com/metablog_single.php?p=1422



Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: wallacehobbs on August 29, 2008, 06:01:58 pm
So what did you think of Obama's speech last night?    :rolleyes

What about McCains women VP selection?

Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: propertymanager on September 04, 2008, 08:06:18 am
WOW!  Sarah Palin gave a GREAT speech last night.  The entire tone of the election has changed and I'm not as concerned as I was about having a pure socialist (Osama Obama) as president.  When Campbell Brown of CNN says good things about a Republican, you KNOW that the democrats are in trouble.  There is no doubt in my mind that Palin will get a lot of the female vote, including a lot of disgruntled democrats.

Obama made a HUGE mistake when he let his hatred of Bill and Hillary affect his judgment!  With Hillary on the ticket, they would have been hard to beat.  With Palin on McCain's ticket, he's got it all:  the female vote, the conservative vote, the independent vote - WOW!  I'm a hard person to impress, but I WAS IMPRESSED!

Maybe there is hope yet that the government won't pile more taxes on our backs and that an administration may actually get out of the way of small business!

Mike
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: allagash on September 04, 2008, 08:27:17 am
I thought Propertymanager was a pit bull.

Sorry Mike....Sarah's got you beat.

-Mike
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: p1nn4cl3 on September 04, 2008, 10:05:45 am
I thought the speech was good, but the hypocrisy of the Republican party is pretty astounding. To run an entire campaign about Obama's experience, and then bring in Sarah Palin as VP? I thought giving speeches to big crowds didn't matter, and was just a "celebrity" thing anyway? Oh but now it's ok. Now we want to win, so the rules change. It's typical Republican hypocrisy in action folks. It's beyond tiring to watch an entire party lie, cheat, and steal for a shot at power, and then be forced to watch watch as otherwise good people get deceived by it. It seems like sometimes we live in the United States of Amnesia.

The only defense the Dems really need this election is Bill Clinton in the years 1992-2000 when our foreign policy of containment on Saddam was working, our MASSIVE deficit was a surplus, the American dollar was strong, FEMA was actually a competent department, and negotiating power around the world was at an all time high. President Bush ran on a policy similar to that, and it's why he won. No nation building, no policing the world, humble foreign policy, smaller government, stronger economy. Well guess what? It was a lie! The government is BIGGER! We earn $7,000 LESS in real income per year! We're building permanent bases in Iraq, and we're talking about invading Iran, but Osama is still at large! We're closer than ever to a NA union, and our individual liberties get trampled under the abuses of the Oval Office. THIS is what we voted in with a Republican President AND a Republican Congress 8 years ago. There is no excuse.

Make no mistake folks. Don't let the lies and skillful deception lead you away from the truth, that 4 years of McCain will just continue on with these policies. While McCain and even Palin may even be ok individually, the Party needs to go. You can't expect change, reform or anything else without accountability, and these disastrous policies are a direct result of 8 years of a Republican President, and 6 years of a Republican Congress. Every time someone wants to bring up the Republican playblook of higher taxes and Socialism, just remind them that Clinton was accused of the same thing...6 months before 8 years of socio-economic boom.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: Hoosier4life2005 on September 04, 2008, 02:47:10 pm
I really liked Palin.  I also liked how Rudy G. gave alot of jabs at Obama, was fun....

With that said, im not buying into this "Maverick" talk about Mccain.  When the guy votes 90% of the time with Bush and has many pictures on different occasions hugging Bush its really hard to think he will distance himself. Palin was pretty great last night.

My vote will go to Bob Barr/Ron Paul (even if hes dropped out) for the simple fact that they are simply best for the job.  I dont want to look back 4 years from now and have my finger prints on a Obama or Mccain vote.

With that said, Mccain is much better than Obama.


Palins daughters are hott too......
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: justin0419 on September 05, 2008, 06:04:48 am
At least Gov. Palin has a verifiable record of reform and executive experience.  Talk about hypocrisy...you have the Dem. Presidential Nominee who has experience writing books and voting "present" on numerous items.  How can he knock someone who went against her own party and cut frivolous spending?  And then there's the Dem. controlled congress that's been ABSOLUTELY worthless since they took over the majority...
I'll leave Gov. Palin's daughters out of it since they're underage, but I do think she is pretty hot.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: kdhastedt on September 05, 2008, 03:02:00 pm
<<I thought the speech was good, but the hypocrisy of the Republican party is pretty astounding. To run an entire campaign about Obama's experience, and then bring in Sarah Palin as VP>>

But you see no hypocracy in running on a platform of change and selecting Joe Biden as a running mate????

Hello...???!!!

Obama is THE most liberal memebr of the Senate and Biden is #3 - birds of a feather, I guess.

And, if this report is true, it's gonna suck being Obama:

http://pumasunleashed.wordpress.com/

Keith
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: wallacehobbs on October 01, 2008, 09:46:43 am
Who do you feel can get the stock market and the housing market back on track?

Obama or Mccain?

How can they do it best?
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: VickyS on October 01, 2008, 07:22:33 pm
McCain is clearly the choice for investors.

He owns numerous houses - he is an investor.

Obama plans to tax small business (that's you - real estate investor) to the tune of some 68% - you get to keep 32% of your transactions. - Talk about destroying the American Dream!
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: retiredat35 on October 01, 2008, 10:48:24 pm
I'm really undecided. 

This isn't going to be politically correct, but if Obama wasn't Black I'd definitely vote for McCain.  Frankly, if Donald Duck was going to help me keep more of my money and had a chance to win I'd vote for him.  I could care less about the ideology.

I care about the money mostly.

However, I also care about Obama making history.  Some of my best friends are Black.

So it's a tough choice for me.





Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: justin0419 on October 02, 2008, 04:35:38 am
Obviously your right to vote for your desired candidate is purely your right to do as you see fit.  That being said, why would you vote for a candidate who, in your own stated opinion, is substandard as compared to the other major candidate just to make history?  He's already made history just by being nominated by his respective party.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: PositiveOutlook on October 02, 2008, 11:19:14 am
Yeah, RetiredAt35, besides Palin would be the 1st female VP, and ladies should always go first!  :biggrin

McCain would also be the first President elected over the age of 70; so you get two history-makers for the price of one on the republican ticket!... lol
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: aares on October 04, 2008, 07:28:42 am
Hoosier sounds like he is watching too much driveby media programs. Pretty much all he does, is says what the media says, and what Obamas campaign says:

"McCain will be another 4 yrs of Bush"

"McCain wants more troops killed"

"McCain wants to spend the US into space"

And WAIT A MINUTE...

did I just read, "if Obama wasnt black I would vote for McCain"????????? What is this crap? What an idiot...you need to get out of America. Now.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: Hoosier4life2005 on October 04, 2008, 09:11:22 am
Hoosier sounds like he is watching too much driveby media programs. Pretty much all he does, is says what the media says, and what Obamas campaign says:

"McCain will be another 4 yrs of Bush"

"McCain wants more troops killed"

"McCain wants to spend the US into space"

And WAIT A MINUTE...

did I just read, "if Obama wasnt black I would vote for McCain"????????? What is this crap? What an idiot...you need to get out of America. Now.



#1 Mccain will be another Bush term.... do you look at his policies.  If anything hes more Socialist than Bush.

#2.  I dont believe I ever said anything about the war.

#3.  Never said anything about space either.

#4.  That wasnt me that said that.  But guess what.. people can vote for or not vote for somebody for any reason they want.  Who are you to tell somebody they cant vote for somebody because there black?  Im not a person that would not vote for Obama because hes black,  however.....  Obamas black bias' attitude toward minorities over white people is pretty absurd, so why cant I be racist like Obama?

For those who arent sure what Im talking about.. Look for "Obamas Typical White Woman" Quote on Youtube.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: darkside on October 04, 2008, 11:10:37 am
I may as well make my first post a good one...LOL

For me, it's like this:  Obama is an empty suit.  He's good at memorizing talking points and reading teleprompters.  His manner of speaking reminds me of a thrift store version of Jesse Jackson.  He's arrogant, effete and just seems to be way too in love with himself.  He's supported bills to murder infants (abortion survivors).  He wants to raise taxes on people making as little as $42K per year.  He wants to nearly double the capital gains tax rate.  He intends to meet and play slap-ass with terrorists and thug dictators (read "our enemies").  He has chosen a complete moron as a running mate and the only reason he's made it this far is because the media covers up all his undesirable details and carries his water in a very big way.  There is more (much more), but what's the point of enumerating every reason not to vote for this poser? 

Bottom line - Obama is dangerous for this country.  The damage he could do to our economy, national security and freedoms in the next four years literally frightens me

McCain isn't a conservative, not by a long shot, but he's nowhere near as radically liberal as Obama.  So once again, we're going for the lesser of two evils.

And as far as McCain or Bush being socialist...are you serious?  Obama wants the government to be the one-stop source of everything in our lives, from health care to home mortgages.  That is the very soul of socialism!  If you think McCain is socialist, why would you vote for Obama, whose policies are MUCH MORE socialist?
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: Hoosier4life2005 on October 04, 2008, 11:53:20 am
I may as well make my first post a good one...LOL

For me, it's like this:  Obama is an empty suit.  He's good at memorizing talking points and reading teleprompters.  His manner of speaking reminds me of a thrift store version of Jesse Jackson.  He's arrogant, effete and just seems to be way too in love with himself.  He's supported bills to murder infants (abortion survivors).  He wants to raise taxes on people making as little as $42K per year.  He wants to nearly double the capital gains tax rate.  He intends to meet and play slap-ass with terrorists and thug dictators (read "our enemies").  He has chosen a complete moron as a running mate and the only reason he's made it this far is because the media covers up all his undesirable details and carries his water in a very big way.  There is more (much more), but what's the point of enumerating every reason not to vote for this poser? 

Bottom line - Obama is dangerous for this country.  The damage he could do to our economy, national security and freedoms in the next four years literally frightens me

McCain isn't a conservative, not by a long shot, but he's nowhere near as radically liberal as Obama.  So once again, we're going for the lesser of two evils.

And as far as McCain or Bush being socialist...are you serious?  Obama wants the government to be the one-stop source of everything in our lives, from health care to home mortgages.  That is the very soul of socialism!  If you think McCain is socialist, why would you vote for Obama, whose policies are MUCH MORE socialist?

Im not voting for Obama....  Yes I know Obama is very Socialist.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: darkside on October 04, 2008, 03:36:10 pm

Im not voting for Obama....  Yes I know Obama is very Socialist.


I apologize for not being more clear.  My belief is that any non-McCain vote is effectively a vote for Obama.  I understand that some people want to vote for Bob Barr or even Ron Paul, on principle.  However, neither of these men stands a chance of winning the election, so a vote for either of them is a wasted vote, one less for McCain and one vote closer to Comrade Obama getting the keys to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue and control over the armed forces, foreign policy and more for the next four years.

McCain isn't my guy.  Fred Thompson was my guy.  I could write Fred's name on my ballot, but I won't, because I value the safety and stability of the country over the principle of voting for a the candidate I think is best suited to the job.

Besides, Sarah Palin is, IMHO, very conservative, and a term as VP will groom her nicely for a Presidential run in 2012.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: maryburton on October 05, 2008, 04:00:48 pm
It's unfair Donald Duck was on the list, Mickey Mouse was not! LOL

Seriously, it's Obama!
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: PositiveOutlook on October 05, 2008, 09:28:34 pm
Maryburton, you're right!... Obama IS Micky Mouse... lol... just look at his policies, add to that they are both half-white and half-black, but mostly the ears are a dead give-away!    :shocked

Very insightful... :biggrin
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: maryburton on October 05, 2008, 10:08:34 pm
I don't see him wearing red pants :P That would look ugly, the ears are fine, ever met Jumbo? :P or was it Dumbo?


Maryburton, you're right!... Obama IS Micky Mouse... lol... just look at his policies, add to that they are both half-white and half-black, but mostly the ears are a dead give-away!    :shocked

Very insightful... :biggrin
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: kurtlacson on October 06, 2008, 02:24:52 am
Hold it guys, I think both of these candidates deserve some respect. There's no need to mock them.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: propertymanager on October 06, 2008, 06:18:02 am
Quote
I think both of these candidates deserve some respect.

I disagree.  Respect is EARNED, not bestowed.  While I have complete respect for John McCain's military record (EARNED), I totally disrepect both Obama and McCain when it comes to politics.  Obama is an overt socialist and McCain is a socialist - lite.  YUK!  Nothing to respect there.

Mike
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: Hoosier4life2005 on October 06, 2008, 06:21:20 am
Quote
I think both of these candidates deserve some respect.

I disagree.  Respect is EARNED, not bestowed.  While I have complete respect for John McCain's military record (EARNED), I totally disrepect both Obama and McCain when it comes to politics.  Obama is an overt socialist and McCain is a socialist - lite.  YUK!  Nothing to respect there.

Mike

Icky icky socialism.  ICKY! YUK!

Mike, you got respect for Palin?

She stopped that bridge from uhhh.... nowhere being built? Or something like that?? lolz...
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: propertymanager on October 06, 2008, 06:26:22 am
Quote
Mike, you got respect for Palin?

She stopped that bridge from uhhh.... nowhere being built? Or something like that?? lolz...

She's at least SAYING most of the right things.  So, yes, so far I have respect for her.

Mike
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: kurtlacson on October 06, 2008, 02:08:30 pm
I think I remember my mother telling me that... oh well so much for politics, it's like talking about religion :D


Quote
I think both of these candidates deserve some respect.

I disagree.  Respect is EARNED, not bestowed.  While I have complete respect for John McCain's military record (EARNED), I totally disrepect both Obama and McCain when it comes to politics.  Obama is an overt socialist and McCain is a socialist - lite.  YUK!  Nothing to respect there.

Mike
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: p1nn4cl3 on October 06, 2008, 11:56:14 pm
Quote
Mike, you got respect for Palin?

She stopped that bridge from uhhh.... nowhere being built? Or something like that?? lolz...

She's at least SAYING most of the right things.  So, yes, so far I have respect for her.

Mike


That's funny...and here I thought a precondition to actually saying something was the ability to put together a complete sentence.  :monalisa
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: PositiveOutlook on October 07, 2008, 10:13:31 am
You mean like... Uh, Uhm, pause, Uh, no, wait for it... Uhhhhh  Obama?   :biggrin
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: PositiveOutlook on October 07, 2008, 10:18:10 am
Here's a thought...

Let's move this more toward WHY you are voting for Obama...  For those of you who are voiting for hom, what qualifies Obama to be POTUS?  Convince me, why should I give him any uh, uhmmm, pause.... uhm, further consideration?

Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: propertymanager on October 07, 2008, 11:31:16 am
I'll give you a good reason to vote for Obama (sorry, in my original post I put McCain here).  He's a socialist and will oversee a huge amount of additional spending.  That spending will speed up our collision course with bankruptcy and catastrophe as a nation.  The sooner we hit that brick wall, the sooner we can get headed back to being a great country.  Additionally, the longer it takes to reach that wall, the harder we will hit it.  Moreover, if the country is going to collapse, I'd just as soon have a socialist at the helm.

Those are all good reasons to vote for Obama.

What are the good reasons to vote for McCain?

Palin - that's all I got.  McCain is a socialist-lite and I don't think he will be good for the country.

Mike
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: darkside on October 07, 2008, 04:15:49 pm
Those are all good reasons to vote for Obama.

What are the good reasons to vote for McCain?

Palin - that's all I got.  McCain is a socialist-lite and I don't think he will be good for the country.

Hmm...you forgot to mention that Obama is also a socialist, but around 10 times as severe as McCain on his worst day.  Here are a few good things about McCain, and a few corresponding bad things about Obama. -


These are just a few reasons to vote for McCain.  Now, can we see some reasons to vote for Comrade Obama?
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: propertymanager on October 07, 2008, 05:13:57 pm
Sorry, I meant to say Obama!  I'll go back and edit my previous post.

Mike
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: darkside on October 07, 2008, 05:54:36 pm
Oh...well....alrighty then.  LOL
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: p1nn4cl3 on October 07, 2008, 06:59:24 pm
I campaigned for Ron Paul all last summer, and a lot of people here seem to like him, so before I post, I'd just like to say if you REALLY aren't  happy with either candidate, and you REALLY think we need a new government then you should put your money where your mouth is and help get some people into Congress that can help Ron before he retires. Today is a money bomb for BJ Lawson - http://www.lawsonforcongress.com/ who Ron handpicked to get him some support in the House. I gave $10, and it's probably the best investment for my conscience I've made this year.

Anyway though, reasons why I like Obama over McCain:











Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: propertymanager on October 07, 2008, 10:10:39 pm
OK, who are we going to write-in?  Ron Paul would be my first choice.  I simply couldn't believe that in tonight's debate McCain proposed spending $300 Billion to write off the principal of people who are upside down on their mortgages.  Let's face the unpleasant truth - McCain is a socialist!  I can't vote for a socialist!

Mike
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: fadi on October 07, 2008, 10:34:08 pm
heh that was funny... I guess he figured what the heck, lets make it an even trillion
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: PositiveOutlook on October 07, 2008, 10:42:41 pm
I thought so... absent in this analysis are Obama's qualifications to be POTUS...

Putting his oratory skills to the side, all you have left is his record, which is?... how does it qualify him for the office?  If all there was is the ability to inspire (which is an important trait, mind you), without a track-record, the glow of such skill wears off and what is left? Let's define it, what are Obama's qualifications to be POTUS?

ANYONE can put out positions that sound popular(ist), but without a track record of actually achieving results resembling these positions, it's just party-line talk. And then the bait and switch comes... You can love his talk on positions (I don't), but if he can't follow-through, what's the point?

For example, when he ran for Senate in Illinios, he promised a middle class tax cut.  Not only did it no materialize, he never even brought it up for consideration!  He didn't even dispute that in tonights boring debate.  Amazing! What makes you think he will follow through on his "95%" middle class tax-cut?  Based on what?

We, as a people, have a much greater responsibility our country and our kids to flesh this out... It certainly is not being done by the press...



P.S. - I never thought in my lifetime I would ever be in the position to say that I "feel" Hillary Clinton's pain!...
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: fadi on October 07, 2008, 10:50:08 pm
yeah but if that was relevant, then why Palin? why not someone experienced?
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: darkside on October 08, 2008, 12:53:18 am
yeah but if that was relevant, then why Palin? why not someone experienced?

Palin IS experienced.  In her time as Mayor and Governor she has made some very bold moves and taken on some very tough challenges.  Obama has ZERO executive experience.  He has less than 5 months actual time in the Senate.  So where is the experience we keep hearing so much about?  Obama is so much smoke and mirrors with absolutely no substance.

And consider that you're comparing McCain's VP to Obama himself.  It's sad to say but true nonetheless -- the bottom of the Republican ticket is more experienced and battle proven than the top of the Democrat ticket.  So the choices are (1) vote for a ticket with a semi-inexperienced but already proven VP or (2) vote for a ticket with a totally inexperienced President with the most liberal voting record in the Senate, terrorist friends, racist preacher, etc.  There really is no comparison; McCain is a better choice all around.
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: justin0419 on October 08, 2008, 05:23:03 am
At least Obama has the liberal majority media in his pocket to cover his inexperience...
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: justin0419 on October 11, 2008, 10:29:24 am
Mike,
You were right all this time.  Just look at this:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27122742/?GT1=43001
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: jace on October 12, 2008, 06:45:11 pm
I wish I was rich enough to be a democrat.   :  :cool
Title: Re: Mccain? Obama?
Post by: wallacehobbs on October 29, 2008, 10:20:51 am
I wish I was rich enough to be a democrat.   :  :cool

Good Subtle point you make here.....