Real Estate Investing Forums

Real Estate Investing => Rehabbing, Fix and Flip, Rental Properties => Topic started by: zzzzzzcobra on January 22, 2006, 10:02:55 am

Title: kitchen cabinets
Post by: zzzzzzcobra on January 22, 2006, 10:02:55 am
When you purchase a house to flip, how do you know when to replace the kitchen cabinets or when to leave them.  If they are old and brown but in good shape and you replace them with new ones will it bring more money for you that it will off set the additional cost and time when you sell.
Title: Re:kitchen cabinets
Post by: drcpr on January 22, 2006, 12:19:12 pm
imho, cabinets are a very expensive improvement. If at all possible, if they are solid,, I would opt to paint, strip & stain or just replace the doors. I know it would depend on the home, but lots of people like the painted door thing &/or the 'shabby chic' look  

Title: Re:kitchen cabinets
Post by: JeffInCT on January 22, 2006, 03:36:26 pm
IMHO painted, stained, urethaned cabinets look like someone was trying to get away cheap.

Cabinets are expensive but if the job and budget allow, cost recovery and then some is very probable.

If you can get reasonable priced labor You can recover up to two times the cost of the cabinets by replacing them ...providing the labor is reasonable.  Lowes wanted 2k to install their kitchen cabintes. A random cabinet installer put in my Lowes cabinets and countertop for 500.

I have an example at my site: www.jyrentals.com

On the top left corner there is a temporary link for 156 Park before and after.

Title: Re:kitchen cabinets
Post by: black95gt on January 23, 2006, 08:38:10 am
Cabinets are not hard to install if you know how to find the Wall Studs.  I've done 2 decent size kitchens with nice looking, inexpensive cabinets for about $1000 for each. IMO it is not worth the time and effort to to strip and paint, which usually means you will need to buy new hardware as well. This might be the way to go if you dont care about your time and labor, cuz you will need alot of it and is a hassle.  ALso the same thing with just replacing cabinet doors.  by the time you buy them stain them and put new hardware on you could have bought new cabinets.  
Title: Re:kitchen cabinets
Post by: drcpr on January 23, 2006, 10:15:00 am
Cabinets are not hard to install if you know how to find the Wall Studs.  I've done 2 decent size kitchens with nice looking, inexpensive cabinets for about $1000 for each. IMO it is not worth the time and effort to to strip and paint, which usually means you will need to buy new hardware as well. This might be the way to go if you dont care about your time and labor, cuz you will need alot of it and is a hassle.  ALso the same thing with just replacing cabinet doors.  by the time you buy them stain them and put new hardware on you could have bought new cabinets.  

....................................................

when I said refinish or paint cabinets abotve I did qualify it depended on the house
I still say if it is a rental, I would try not to put $$$ into new cabinets. If you are flipping the property then new cabinets are good. They are not easy to put in if you are a 5'2" female . the cheapest we have found at  home depot are the white millworks & those also need to be put together & depending on the size of the kitchen that could be a 2 day job for some folks
again - it depends on the property & the exit plan
jmo
Title: Re:kitchen cabinets
Post by: zzzzzzcobra on January 23, 2006, 10:39:37 am
So then the consensus is, if you are flipping the property, the cabinets look old and dingy, you are in a middle class neighborhood, it is worth the money to replace the cabinets.  You believe you will recoup the money plus some.
Title: Re:kitchen cabinets
Post by: kdhastedt on January 23, 2006, 03:12:27 pm

We have a cabinet factory just over the Texas line from us...abot 35-40 miles.  The cabinets for my current project will cost $605 plus a counter top.  The same thing at Lowes/Home Depot is over $1000.  This place does not advertise much.  Look in hte phone book, etc.

Keith
Title: Re:kitchen cabinets
Post by: sybadon on January 24, 2006, 07:28:01 am
take em all down and paint them....coat of primer, 2-3 coats of a good quality med-high gloss....they will look brand new...i've done it many times
Title: Re:kitchen cabinets
Post by: flinvest on January 24, 2006, 07:31:11 am
If the cabinets are in generally good shape then having them refaced is an option that typically costs about 1/3 of replacing them and they will look brand new.  
Title: Re:kitchen cabinets
Post by: kdhastedt on January 24, 2006, 07:33:33 am

...oops forgot to say:  These cabinets were unsalvageable.  They are broken, chipped, warped, bent, have a big sway at the sink, have drawers nailed together with 8-penney commons, etc.  The sink is avacado green but went nicely with the 1970s floral green/orange wallpaper and the orange rubber cove base!

Keith
Title: Re:kitchen cabinets
Post by: Mdhaas on January 24, 2006, 10:34:02 am
Quote
The sink is avacado green but went nicely with the 1970s floral green/orange wallpaper and the orange rubber cove base!

Cool!  I heard that those color schemes are coming back?
Title: Re:kitchen cabinets
Post by: kdhastedt on January 24, 2006, 12:16:35 pm

...well, on top of that, the full bath (under the wallpaper) was lime green, the master bedroom (under the wallpaper) was "Pepto-bismal" pink, one of the bedrooms was bright yellow with one wall having yellow and orange stripes.  Two of the bedrooms had shag carpet (honest to God, no BS!) -- one in blue and one orange, yellow, and green swirls.

Apparently there is no color in the pallet that they were afraid of!

Most of it has been "neutralized"...still got to patch the walls in the full bath....

Keith
Title: Re:kitchen cabinets
Post by: Mdhaas on January 24, 2006, 12:36:17 pm
Quote
Two of the bedrooms had shag carpet (honest to God, no BS!)

Shag...yea baby!
Title: Re:kitchen cabinets
Post by: kdhastedt on January 24, 2006, 02:24:36 pm

Not that sort of shag...but that's what the wall in the half-bath looks like it was used for...

LOL...
Title: Re:kitchen cabinets
Post by: Rich_in_CT on January 24, 2006, 02:34:12 pm

...oops forgot to say:  These cabinets were unsalvageable.  They are broken, chipped, warped, bent, have a big sway at the sink, have drawers nailed together with 8-penney commons, etc.  The sink is avacado green but went nicely with the 1970s floral green/orange wallpaper and the orange rubber cove base!

Keith
I'd tear them out and replace if they look like that.  First place a woman looks is the kitchen, cabinets that bad will kill the deal every time.  You know even if there was a 20 car garage with a lift and a shabby kitchen the wife would out vote the husband on that one. ;D
Title: Re:kitchen cabinets
Post by: kdhastedt on January 24, 2006, 03:20:22 pm

The worst is already gone...I can get cabinets in about an hour at the factory.  I am still using the avacado sink during the rehab but am going to FedEx it to Mark Haas when I yank it out...

Keith
Title: Re:kitchen cabinets
Post by: LoriK on January 24, 2006, 04:00:40 pm

Not that sort of shag...but that's what the wall in the half-bath looks like it was used for...

LOL...

Ewwww...!!!

For a rental - cheaper cabinets. If you are flipping to sell - spend the money. 2 places to spend money are kitchens and bathrooms.

Do check with local millners (is that the word?). They can be much cheaper than HD or Lowe's.
Title: Re:kitchen cabinets
Post by: Lizbuyshouses on January 24, 2006, 08:37:05 pm
I love the humor in this forum.   I was walking around Home Depot this weekend when I heard my partner gasp loudly.  I turned and couldn't believe my eyes.   The feature commode/sink set was all in a very 70's reminicent beige.  

Beige not your color?

Never fear, there is a catalog of colors you can choose, how about lavendar?   Sky blue anyone?

Keith - your avocado sink might be ready for a reincarnation as the new hipster color....

Okay seriously, kictens can be a big wow factor when selling a flip/rehab.   My two cents?  Do it right.   I can't tell you how many bad kitchen jobs I see.   Even if you buy affordable cabinets, take time to install them well and make sure the countertop is lined up and level.  

If the budget allows throw in one or two bonus features like a knife drawer or built in lazy susan.   Buyers go nuts when they think they are getting a "fancy kitchen".  

Liz
Title: Re:kitchen cabinets
Post by: kdhastedt on January 25, 2006, 07:45:08 am

Liz,

This is actually a buy-and-hold rental property.  But, my rentals are clean, neat, freshly painted, and serviceable.  We believe that, just because people rent, it doesn't mean that they should receive sub-standard amenities.  We keep our properties nice and expect the same of our tenants.

On the flip side, we've had several people stop and say that they saw our vehicles and wanted to see if they could rent our new project because they liked the last one so much (it was a higher priced area/property that they couldn't quite afford)...

Keith
Title: Re:kitchen cabinets
Post by: drcpr on January 25, 2006, 08:51:25 am
"..........But, my rentals are clean, neat, freshly painted, and serviceable.  We believe that, just because people rent, it doesn't mean that they should receive sub-standard amenities.  We keep our properties nice and expect the same of our tenants.........."

I so totally agree with this.... learned it well when we owned an old motel that we did weekly rentals....
generally speaking, if the landlord doesn't appear to care about the property, it is highly unlikely the tenants will care either. They are more likely to care if they are expected to care & actions speak louder than words...
IMO a rental does not need to be fancy as much as it needs to be clean & good repair - this is of the utmost importance. Just shows respect for others I think
Title: Re:kitchen cabinets
Post by: Lizbuyshouses on January 30, 2006, 08:03:28 pm
Keith -

I agree.  I actually buy larger than average homes in nice neighboorhoods.  I'm enjoying some great successs with buying the spacious ugly duckling and doing some affordable and strategic "prettying-up".

We pride ourselves in provding a quality home and have been rewarded with high end rental income and flawless tenants.  

I love this business.

Liz

Title: Re:kitchen cabinets
Post by: zzzzzzcobra on January 30, 2006, 08:08:31 pm
Liz,
Whats the typical sq ft of one of your rentals and the typical total cost of the property then the typical rental income you would receive from one of these units.
Title: Re:kitchen cabinets
Post by: Lizbuyshouses on February 01, 2006, 03:30:37 pm
Off the top of my head:

I have two right now:

Small One is 1600 Sq Ft - Paid $150 2 years ago now valued at $285K
PITI is $795/mo, rental income after paying prop mgr is $1125/mo.  Dont know my expenses right off.  Vacancy at 95%.  

Larger One is 1825 Sq Ft -  paid $180 sept 2004.  Just appraised for $250 and I've not put a cent into it.   This one is a break even on rental so I keep the chasflow of the smaller home as a hedge against costs on both.

Both in nice neighborhoods that are experiencing an enthusiastic revival.

Liz
Title: Re:kitchen cabinets
Post by: Ms. Investor on February 06, 2006, 02:23:24 pm
The property that I just purchased needed an entire new kitchen. It was outstandingly outdated. At first I was going to paint them, but didn't like the way that it was looking. I threw out the cabinets and replaced them with pre-made cabinets from Lowes.. we bought the cabinets for the entire kitchen for around a grand. They come completely finished and read to hang. It saved enormous amounts of time and money.

If i were to take that week to sand and re-paint the old cabinets it would have costed more than a grand in time and money.. so it was by far worth it..
Title: Re:kitchen cabinets
Post by: txwook on February 07, 2006, 09:04:19 am
I agree with some of the posters who have recommended refacing. It can really look great.
Title: Re:kitchen cabinets
Post by: seanmathes on February 08, 2006, 11:43:24 am
Anyone have any opinions on sub2 home. I am buying a rehab that needs new cabinets. The problem with these is that several of the doors are actually missing and some of the hinges on others are ripped out. Any suggestions.
Title: Re:kitchen cabinets
Post by: David A. Hurlbrink on February 12, 2006, 02:55:17 am
Keith,
  You have the perfect rental for Tommy Chong, dude!! ;)
What's that idiotic show where they create TV themes throughout the house? Call Eric Forman and you've got your tenant in as is shape...lol. ::) Sorry, I couldn't resist since I was raised in the 70's burnt orange shag, avocado appliances and the pepto sinks. Thanks for the trip down memory lane.
Regards,
Dave
Title: Re:kitchen cabinets
Post by: kdhastedt on February 12, 2006, 03:34:01 pm

Sorry, David but the only thing currently left is the green kitchen sink (but it's promised out (Mark wants it, I think -- LOL)...

I bought a 48" oak bathroom vanity for $138 at the cabinet factory.  The same thing was $289 at Lowes.

Keith
Title: Re:kitchen cabinets
Post by: whatsagirltodo on February 12, 2006, 08:45:22 pm
kdhastedt,

Is the cabinet factory just in your area?
Title: Re:kitchen cabinets
Post by: kdhastedt on February 13, 2006, 06:24:10 am

I would guess that there are others around the country...there is one near my parents in Virginia, but I generally use the one that's 40 miles.

 :)

Keith
Title: Re: kitchen cabinets
Post by: mercado008 on July 28, 2009, 01:50:54 pm
 :shocked  For inexpensive cabinets visit this website http://www.skb-kitchens.com whom sell Mill's Pride cabinets.  These cabinets are very inexpensive and will hold for many years in your new kitchen.
Title: Re: kitchen cabinets
Post by: tatertot on July 29, 2009, 04:49:10 pm
I replace them if they reek of mouse pee. There's not much you can do about that. Other than that, you can do a lot of repair to cabinets and hide the repairs under a good even coat of paint.

Sometimes the hardware cleans up nice, sometimes it needs a can of spray paint, occasionally, it needs to be replaced.

Paint job has to be top quality and inside and out.

If the configuration of the kitchen is changed, that usually means new cabinets; it's too hard to match old ones.

With some cabinets, you can replace the panels on the doors with glass (tempered safety glass) and a few top cabinets with glass doors really dress up a kitchen.
Title: Re: kitchen cabinets
Post by: JTT Properties on July 29, 2009, 07:01:35 pm
With some cabinets, you can replace the panels on the doors with glass (tempered safety glass) and a few top cabinets with glass doors really dress up a kitchen.

I've been trying to figure out how to repair some cabinet doors that were broken recently. Great idea, and cheap. Thank you.
Title: Re: kitchen cabinets
Post by: govauctions007 on July 31, 2009, 10:59:16 am
If you’ll live in the home for a short time, you can select a basic style of cabinets. But if this is going to be your “dream kitchen” or bath, you should look for top-quality construction. Cabinets should have solid frames, door and drawer fronts, reinforced corners and closed backs. Drawers and doors of cabinets will be opened and closed many times a day and should operate smoothly and quietly. The finish on the wood should be smooth.
Title: Re: kitchen cabinets
Post by: Jackson C on August 08, 2009, 11:31:56 pm
Cabinets are the heart of a kitchen's organization and the key contributor to its appearance.